<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body>
<p>Yes this is not about sanctifying particular protocols whether it
be "IP" or "TCP" or even "QUIC". This is about basic principles
and properties needed for an open Internetwork for everyone to
enjoy and participate through permissionless innovation.<br>
</p>
<p>C<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 16/07/2020 15:03, Paul Brooks via
Chapter-delegates wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:05e99333-875d-29fd-8f3d-46f57ab0be8c@internet.org.au">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Let me take a Devils Advocate
position for a moment, preaching to the converted...</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 16/07/2020 9:10 am, Dave Burstein
via Chapter-delegates wrote:</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAAUuzMTp+50QHQR9-be6fojrJmraXMa-pfTuCqZ_=GXaixZkGg@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;
charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:trebuchet
ms,sans-serif">But what happens if air traffic control in
Hamburg (on DT's network) wants to coordinate with ATC in
Lyon, on Orange/FT. There's no way today to guarantee
performance across networks, although the IEFT has long
had solutions. The same problem occurs with
multi-player Pokemon Go when one player is on DT and the
second on Vodafone.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:trebuchet
ms,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:trebuchet
ms,sans-serif">To solve that problem, the telcos want to
(gradually) dump TCP-IP in favor of a tightly controlled
"deterministic network." TCP-IP has proven its ability to
adapt and scale. I think the efficiency claims will not be
realized and the cost much higher. In theoretical
discussions in standards, the new system works perfectly.
I live in the real world. <br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>Dave - are we forgetting the impact of the general public user,
and application deployers, and 'the market' inertia in all this?
<br>
</p>
<p>We - and 'they' - used to have such a deterministic network
system. It was called ATM. Before that we also had a
deterministic network system - clear channel SDH/SONET
transmission services. For a while there were parallel global
and national ATM backbones and IP backbones. There were
IP-over-ATM backbones which were supposed to provide determinism
and time-base slicing. There were 'ATM Switched Virtual
Circuits' that never actually switched in practice. Over time
the Internet and IP became dominant. Why?</p>
<p> ATM commercial services didn't die off because they were
inherently technically inferior (although they were), they died
off due to lack of customer demand, which lead to a lack of
revenue. ATM gear was more expensive, services were more
expensive and inflexible, and actual 'deterministic' services
even more so - the user-base voted with their feet and wallets
and ignored 'proper deterministic' expensive networks in favour
of those good-enough-in-practice more flexible cheaper systems.
It didn't matter how 'superior' it was touted, nobody wants to
expend big funds building infrastructure that has no customer
demand.<br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAAUuzMTp+50QHQR9-be6fojrJmraXMa-pfTuCqZ_=GXaixZkGg@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:trebuchet
ms,sans-serif"> TCP-IP will gradually be replaced by an
alternative that is designed for QoS/network slicing
because the carriers believe they will be paid for SLAs
and guaranteed performance. This is desired by security
agencies and the carriers think they can sell it to
others. They smell $billions and intend to push it
through. Like everything else in telecom, the Chinese will
be the first to a large build, but Telefonica, DT and
others intend to move forward.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:trebuchet
ms,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif">
It will take at least 3 years for this to become practical
to deploy and more likely 5-7. </div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>There is now an enormous installed base of IP-based
applications and systems, developers who understand how to build
applications that communicate with IP, investment in codebase
that relies on sockets, ports, IP addresses and name resolution
- heck, we haven't been able to replace IPv4 with IPv6 in *two
decades*, and thats without any concerted pushback. For anything
to be deployed inside a decade, it will need to be standardised,
ratified, built into routers, debugged, gather commercial
acceptance, AND have some form of translation/convergence shim
invented so that three decades of operating systems, services,
browsers, chat apps etc don't need to be thrown out the window.
Whatever comes out it won't 'kill off TCP/IP' until a decade
after it is built into native Windows, Linux, IOS and Android
drivers AND all the applications people use today. Otherwise,
whatever 'they' invent will end up being an expensive set of
deterministic switched-virtual-circuit layer1/layer2 network, on
which 'the market' and customers will run TCP/IP as an overlay,
because nobody in user-land will want to re-invent the
application wheels, or the entire ecosystem that it supports.</p>
<p>Carriers might believe they will be paid extra $$$ and
$billions for SLAs and guaranteed performance, but beliefs don't
make it so - we can point to decades of actual measured customer
behaviour, from the failure of ATM to why so few customers ever
buy 'business grade' services even when they are available, to
why so many people take slower roads to bypass a highway with
tolls.<br>
</p>
<p>One thing I know - we won't 'win' if we frame our arguments as
'defending TCP/IP and the Internet'. The moment we talk of
'defending' something, others will wonder why we're trying so
hard to defend something if it is so obviously superior. We
won't 'win' if we focus on better technicals, or more open
development methods. We won't 'win' if we treat it as a
adversarial 'fight'.<br>
</p>
<p>The best argument I've found against the 'telehealth needs
guaranteed QOS networks' is to quietly ask the person whether,
even if such a network existed, they would be happy going under
the anaesthetic on the table knowing the surgeon was on the
other side of the country, given how frequently their mobile
phone drops out and how often she reads about networks being
taken offline by trench-diggers - and how comfortable she
thought health insurers and courts would be with a 'QOS
guarantee certificate' from the carrier. And how comfortable the
network owners will be if telehealth is the only lonely use-case
for the expensive shiny network, because everything else that
doesn't need the QOS guarantees is on a cheaper parallel
competing network.<br>
</p>
<p>We *may* head it off, if we can highlight that all history
shows that proper determinism is uncommercial - the extra
$billions they dream of isn't there - even if they build
something out of non-IP, unless it is priced at Internet
commercials or cheaper, it is likely to be an expensive,
embarrassing white-elephant with no customers.</p>
<p> We *may* prevail if we approach it as 'helping them to avoid
their embarrassment'. Risk of embarrassing/noncommercial
expensive failure is a better motivator for no-progress and for
programs being quietly abandoned than the prospect of a fight.</p>
<p>Best regards,</p>
<p>Paul.<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAAUuzMTp+50QHQR9-be6fojrJmraXMa-pfTuCqZ_=GXaixZkGg@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif">But
if we think this is not a desirable long term future for
the net, we have to be very public and make the issues
clear. Olaf's paper is sensible but oblique, and our
beliefs are invisible in places like Focus Group 2030 and
the other places - especially 3GPP & ETSI - where
decisions are being made. (I sometimes speak to it, but
have to earn a living and haven't had much time.)</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif">Accurate
information is not enough to win a political battle with
literally $trillions of companies and their governments
are on the other side.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif">If
this matters, we can and must do much more.</div>
<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at
9:29 AM sivasubramanian muthusamy <<a
href="mailto:6.internet@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">6.internet@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Apr 30, 2020
at 4:46 AM Dave Burstein via Chapter-delegates <<a
href="mailto:chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family:"trebuchet
ms",sans-serif">Olaf</div>
<div style="font-family:"trebuchet
ms",sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:"trebuchet
ms",sans-serif">We agree on the main issues
here, but we need to do a much more effective
job to win here. </div>
<div style="font-family:"trebuchet
ms",sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:"trebuchet
ms",sans-serif">tl/dr unless the issues are
important to you.</div>
<div style="font-family:"trebuchet
ms",sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:"trebuchet
ms",sans-serif"> I learned how to win
policy issues through 20 years watching silver
tongues like AT&T's legendary lobbyist Jim
Cicconi. They approach the battle by researching
carefully "what arguments will persuade the
people we need to reach and they will believe."
On telco control, which is the issue here, we
have great pocketbook issues you've noted in
your paper. Complexity and control drive up
costs enormously. That's a great reason to stick
with IP - it does a brilliant job adapting. Bob
and Vint work is extraordinary, not just
historic.</div>
<div style="font-family:"trebuchet
ms",sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:"trebuchet
ms",sans-serif"> Something like this
needs support from far more people than might be
persuaded by <u>anything</u> we might say about
governance. <span
style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">Very
few people care about ITU vs ICANN or IP vs
Non-IP. "Internet governance" issues are so
obscure even tech reporters rarely get them
right. No politicians understand this stuff
and 9 out of 10 won't accept some geeks
educating them. As our board member Pepper
(bcc'd) often says, "DC doesn't understand
anything that won't fit on a bumper
sticker." </span></div>
<div style="font-family:"trebuchet
ms",sans-serif"><span
style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</span></div>
<div style="font-family:"trebuchet
ms",sans-serif"><span
style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">
We need to take a simple, clear position
that non-experts will respond to.</span></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If non-experts are the focus of this exercise,
then please show it all in pictures and moving
images. What is European Non-IP ? What is Chinese
New IP? And for context, what is precisely the US
battle with China? How does Europe differ from the
US? To the extent that I understand, Europeans and
Americans wear the same clothes and speak the same
English. </div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<ul>
<li><font face="trebuchet ms, sans-serif">We
need to stop referring to "New IP," the
Chinese proposal. Instead, We should talk
about "European Non-IP and Chinese New
IP." Otherwise, our positions can easily
be confused with the U.S. battle with
China and we will immediately lose much of
the audience we need to reach to be
effective. Someone we both respect in a
private note recently said t</font>he
U.S. can't lead effectively here because it
will be dismissed as "more anti-China
rhetoric" He's right. We need to make clear
this is more than a U.S. China issue. That's
why I'm putting the Europeans first. <br>
<font face="trebuchet ms, sans-serif"><br>
Even better, we need to find a way to
"frame the issue" that will advance our
goals by getting wider support. To win
this, we need to define the debate. Very
few people care about ITU vs ICANN or IP
vs Non-IP. "Internet governance" issues
are so obscure even tech reporters rarely
get them right. <br>
No politicians understand this stuff and 9
out of 10 won't accept some geeks
educating them. As our board member Pepper
(bcc'd) often says, "DC doesn't understand
anything that won't fit on a bumper
sticker."</font></li>
</ul>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>That is right. "frame the issue", yes, but frame
the issue in colorful pictures, for at-a-glance
understanding. </div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<ul>
<li><font face="trebuchet ms, sans-serif">Currently,
the telcos and suppliers are doing a good
job convincing some very intelligent
people QoS is crucial for things like
telemedicine and autonomous cars. (The
best telecom economist in DC, for
example.) It also appears obvious to a
non-expert that better network control
would bring down costs. I think those are
dead wrong, but people are echoing the
arguments. How do we answer them?</font></li>
</ul>
</div>
<div style="font-family:"trebuchet
ms",sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:"trebuchet
ms",sans-serif">For example, I'm writing
this as the "<b>Telcos want to take over the
Internet and charge more.</b>" </div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>+1 (that would be an excellent way of reaching
the common man and the non-technical policy
makers.) Lynn St-Amour usually explained it by
contrasting the way the Internet works with
Cable-Telecom pricing model. <br>
</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family:"trebuchet
ms",sans-serif">Also, the complexity will
make the system too expensive That's not quite
good enough. I care about these issues as they
affect the cost of access, particularly for the
less affluent. </div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Pricing 'Plan's ? 'bundles' ? Monthly minimum
? Connectivity or 'Air' time charges ? Value Added
Service Charges ? Premium Services? </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family:"trebuchet
ms",sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<ul>
<li><font face="trebuchet ms, sans-serif">We
need multiple participants at ITU and
ETSI. At the first meeting of FG2030 in
New York, there were something like 20
from China and maybe half a dozen from
the U.S. and a similar number from
Europe. After the New York meeting, the
ratio probably got worse. Hamadoun at
the 2014 Plenipot publicly urged Kathy
to send more people.</font> </li>
</ul>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>
<ul>
<li><br>
<font face="trebuchet ms, sans-serif">Incidentally,
at that meeting I was the only person to
raise anything beyond technical issues
like how to deliver holograms. Brazil
and India then backed my proposal, that
one of the "use cases" for 6G in FG2030
should be delivering systems inexpensive
enough for everyone. </font><br>
<font face="trebuchet ms, sans-serif">ITU
needs civil society and actively </font>encouraged
us. ETSI was very positive about ISOC in a
private conversation.<br>
</li>
</ul>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>
<ul>
<li>We lose if this is perceived as U.S. and
allies, especially if Europe is split.
Remember, at least 65% of the Internet (by
almost everyone's definition except AS) is
not in the US and allies. The BRICS by
most measures now have more connections
than the U.S. and Western Europe combined.
Our work on this should visibly come from
a group with Africans and Asians
prominent. Our board members Olga Cavalli
(Argentina) and Walid Al-Saqaf (Yemen)
have the right experience. India now has
400 million 4G connections, more than the
U.S. has people. They would be a crucial
swing. I can think of an extremely
eloquent Indian advocate for Free Software
but I think the recommendations should
come from our Indian chapters. <br>
</li>
</ul>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>India can be a great ally, if some one can speak
to India in good, clean English that the phone
companies are trying to impress Governments
everywhere with rosy jargon. </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>
<ul>
<li><br>
</li>
</ul>
</div>
</div>
<div style="font-family:"trebuchet
ms",sans-serif">
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Apr 29,
2020 at 11:59 AM Olaf Kolkman via
Chapter-delegates <<a
href="mailto:chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px
0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div style="font-family:sans-serif">
<div style="white-space:normal">
<p dir="auto">Colleagues</p>
<p dir="auto">There were some requests for
a public and archived space for
discussion of this paper. We set up a
list that doesn’t require ISOC
membership to discuss this paper (and
potential future discussion papers).</p>
<p dir="auto">Hence a friendly amendment
to the text below:</p>
<p dir="auto">We welcome any feedback on
“An analysis of the “New IP” proposal to
the ITU-T”. Contact the authors directly
using <a
href="mailto:newIP-discussion-paper@isoc.org"
style="color:rgb(57,131,196)"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">newIP-discussion-paper@isoc.org</a>
or post to the <a
href="mailto:discussion-papers@elists.isoc.org"
style="color:rgb(57,131,196)"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">discussion-papers@elists.isoc.org</a>
mailing list, which is public and
archived.</p>
<p dir="auto">—Olaf</p>
<p dir="auto">On 28 Apr 2020, at 10:22,
Olaf Kolkman wrote:</p>
<blockquote style="border-left:2px solid
rgb(119,119,119);color:rgb(119,119,119);margin:0px
0px 5px;padding-left:5px">
<p dir="auto">Dear Colleagues,</p>
<p dir="auto">With the usual cross-post
apologies[*].</p>
<p dir="auto">In the run up to the ITU
World Telecommunication
Standardization Assembly (WTSA-20)
later this year there has been some
discussion about a proposal called the
“New IP”. It is positioned as a
top-down architecture to solve a
number of use cases that are currently
been developed in the ITU-T’s Future
Network 2030 Focus Group.</p>
<p dir="auto">The Internet Society is
carefully following the developments
in the run-up to WTSA-20. We are
trying to understand if and how the
New IP works with the Internet as we
know it, if it actually solves
problems that cannot be solved in the
Internet, and, if the ITU-T is
developing standards, where other
standards development organizations
(SDOs) have change control.</p>
<p dir="auto">In order to get a sense of
the environment we commissioned a
discussion paper, <a
href="https://www.internetsociety.org/resources/doc/2020/discussion-paper-an-analysis-of-the-new-ip-proposal-to-the-itu-t/"
style="color:rgb(119,119,119)"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">“An analysis
of the ‘New IP’</a> proposal to the
ITU-T.” The paper helps inform us and
the broader community whilst the
public debate around these proposals
shapes up. It also aims to inform and
shape the discussion from the
Internet’s Society’s perspective.
Eventually the debate around it will
inform our position and the potential
further evolution of the discussion
paper itself. Note that the paper
documents the Internet Society’s
emerging opinion, but does not
represent a final Internet Society
position. Instead, we intend it as a
means to gather information and
insight from our community on the
topic.</p>
<p dir="auto">We welcome any feedback on
<a
href="https://www.internetsociety.org/resources/doc/2020/discussion-paper-an-analysis-of-the-new-ip-proposal-to-the-itu-t/"
style="color:rgb(119,119,119)"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">“An analysis
of the ‘New IP’</a> via the email
address <a
href="mailto:NewIP-Discussion-Paper@isoc.org"
style="color:rgb(119,119,119)"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">NewIP-Discussion-Paper@isoc.org</a></p>
<p dir="auto">—Olaf Kolkman</p>
<p dir="auto">[*] This mail has been
sent to various relevant mailing lists
and featured as a blog on the Internet
Society website.</p>
<hr style="background:linear-gradient(to
right,rgb(204,204,204),rgb(51,51,51),rgb(204,204,204))
rgb(51,51,51);border:0px;height:1px"
height="1">
<p dir="auto">Olaf M. Kolkman Tweets as:
@kolkman<br>
Principal - Internet Technology,
Policy, and Advocacy<br>
Internet Society <a
href="https://www.internetsociety.org"
style="color:rgb(119,119,119)"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.internetsociety.org</a></p>
<hr style="background:linear-gradient(to
right,rgb(204,204,204),rgb(51,51,51),rgb(204,204,204))
rgb(51,51,51);border:0px;height:1px"
height="1"> </blockquote>
</div>
<hr>
<table
style="border-collapse:collapse;width:80%"
border="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="width:50%">Olaf M. Kolkman</td>
<td style="width:50%"><br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="width:50%">Principal -
Internet Technology, Policy, and
Advocacy</td>
<td style="width:50%"><br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="width:50%"><a
href="https://www.internetsociety.org/"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">Internet
Society</a></td>
<td style="width:50%" align="right">Tweets
as: <a
href="https://twitter.com/@kolkman"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">@kolkman</a></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<hr> </div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are
automatically subscribed<br>
to this list, which is regularly synchronized
with the Internet Society Chapter Portal (AMS):<br>
<a
href="https://admin.internetsociety.org/622619/User/Login"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://admin.internetsociety.org/622619/User/Login</a><br>
View the Internet Society Code of Conduct: <a
href="https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">Editor, <a
href="http://Fastnet.news" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://Fastnet.news</a>
<a
href="http://wirelessone.news"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://wirelessone.news</a> </div>
<div>Reply "sub" for a
free subscription to
Fast Net News and
Wireless One</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are
automatically subscribed<br>
to this list, which is regularly synchronized with
the Internet Society Chapter Portal (AMS):<br>
<a
href="https://admin.internetsociety.org/622619/User/Login"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://admin.internetsociety.org/622619/User/Login</a><br>
View the Internet Society Code of Conduct: <a
href="https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">Editor, <a
href="http://Fastnet.news"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://Fastnet.news</a>
<a href="http://wirelessone.news"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://wirelessone.news</a> </div>
<div>Reply "sub" for a free
subscription to Fast Net News and
Wireless One</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
-- <br>
This message has been scanned for viruses and <br>
dangerous content by <a href="http://www.mailscanner.info/"
moz-do-not-send="true"><b>MailScanner</b></a>, and is <br>
believed to be clean. <br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society Chapter Portal (AMS):
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://admin.internetsociety.org/622619/User/Login" moz-do-not-send="true">https://admin.internetsociety.org/622619/User/Login</a>
View the Internet Society Code of Conduct: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="86">--
Paul Brooks
Chair, Internet Australia
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:paul.brooks@internet.org.au" moz-do-not-send="true">paul.brooks@internet.org.au</a>
mobile +61414366605
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.internet.org.au" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.internet.org.au</a></pre>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society Chapter Portal (AMS):
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://admin.internetsociety.org/622619/User/Login">https://admin.internetsociety.org/622619/User/Login</a>
View the Internet Society Code of Conduct: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/">https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Christian de Larrinaga
----------------------</pre>
</body>
</html>