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<p>Thank you Andrew, a few clarifications if you please ... <br>
</p>
<p> </p>
<blockquote type="cite">"<i>... </i><i>the terms of engagement were
developed jointly with Chapters ... </i><i>This is the
compromise we’ve settled on ...</i>"<br>
</blockquote>
IIRC, the "Chapters Letter" was largely a top-down set of conditions
set by ISOC HQ. If there were any compromises made on the Chapter
Letter, i do not recall them at the moment and would appreciate
being reminded of them. <br>
<p>There was certainly much discussion around the "mandated bank
account" requirement, this being one of the, if not the main
"sticking point". During one of those calls i recall ISOC HQ
(Chrstine?) mentioning that alternatives would be provided for
this "bank account in the chapters' name" requirement. Again IIRC,
"alternatives" mentioned included possibly coursing funds thru a
fully and legally registered NGO in that country (perhaps somewhat
similar to the "fiscal sponsorship" mentioned by Judith and Joly)'
or to a bank account jointly in the name of two or more chapter
officers certified by that chapter. <br>
</p>
<p>This option of alternatives to a bank account in the chapters'
name was reassuring, and yet now we are informed that even those
chapters who do already have a bank account in their name but are
not formally registered as a "legal organization" may be denied
funding. It seems the requirement then is really --
legally-registered status in that country, regardless of the name
on the bank account. If so, then would have been straightforward
had this condition been made clear form the beginning. <br>
</p>
<p>One question that comes to mind then is -- if there is a strict
prohibition against ISOC HQ funding chapters that are not
legally-registered, or whether this is something else such as a
risk mitigation measure? <br>
</p>
<p>In the meantime, considering the relatively small amounts already
being allotted to chapters, i think you will agree that having 25%
or more of the global chapters condemned to never receiving any
funding at all is hardly a satisfactory situation. And, if we were
to relegate the matter to (assume ChAC) working group, would any
such discussions or subsequent recommendations from ChAC actually
be able to change the decisions made by ISOC HQ, particularly the
hard requirement for legal incorporation? <br>
</p>
<p>Are there any other alternatives to the legal incorporation
requirement? We had previously discussed this matter with Stine,
who after a time simply replied that the requirement stands as-is.
<br>
</p>
<p>Any clarification would be much appreciated, <br>
</p>
<p>WYn<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 8 Jul 2020 5:23 am, Andrew Sullivan
via Chapter-delegates wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:8CDDCC8C-0139-45E5-A4C9-E126F9371C2C@isoc.org">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
This is not a change in policy: SIGs and Chapters are different.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I really do understand the difficulty that is being faced by
some Chapters, but the terms of engagement were developed
jointly with Chapters. They are in part limited by our
incorporation location and US tax law, as well as the
independent status of Chapters and their role in ISOC
governance. This is the compromise we’ve settled on, but if
Chapters have a consensus to change that compromise to a
different one then perhaps that can be part of the governance
reform WG?<br>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best regards,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>A</div>
<div><br>
<div dir="ltr">—
<div>Andrew Sullivan </div>
<div>Please excuse my clumbsy thums</div>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<snip> <br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
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<div class="gmail_quote">
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<div>
<div>On 7/3/2020 11:23 AM, Christine Saegesser
via Chapter-delegates wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">Dear all, <br>
<br>
The Chapter Admin Funding programme is there
to support the Chapter’s day to day running of
the Chapter itself.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>While the Admin funding programme was
launched in Oct 2016 with an application
deadline in Dec 2016, the programme always
closed in either May or June in the
following years. <br>
<br>
The main reasons for closing it in June
are: <br>
<div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"></span>• feedback
we have received from Chapters is that
they would like to receive their Admin
Funding in the first part of the year to
be able to carry out their plans
throughout the year.<br>
</div>
<div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"></span>• budget
management and visibility (it’s is a large
total amount of money to allocate without
knowing how many Chapters will apply)<br>
</div>
<div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"></span>• end
of year accounting volume – there is a
tendency for Chapters to apply at
deadline. Over the past years, we
typically received 70% of the Chapter
applications within the last 3 days before
the deadline, and this across the various
Chapter funding programmes. If the
programme closes towards the end of the
year, this means a considerable number of
invoices that need to be paid on top of
normal end of year closing.<br>
</div>
<br>
Last year, we opened a 2nd round of Chapter
Admin Funding to accommodate
particular circumstances faced by the
Chapters. Based on the feedback here, we
will look into opening a second round later
in the year for 2020 too. And, as mentioned
in my earlier message, we will have a look
at the overall funding schedule for next
year.</div>
<div> <br>
In the meantime, 73% of Chapters have
successfully submitted their applications
for 2020 by the 30 June deadline and we will
work with the Chapters who faced challenges
to submit their applications on time due to
the very difficult global circumstances to
identify solutions. Please reach out to
Stine Philipsen <<a
href="mailto:philipsen@isoc.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">philipsen@isoc.org</a>>
over the next two weeks if this is your
Chapter’s case. <br>
<br>
Also, concerning the need for a bank account
on the name of the Chapter: </div>
<div>What the Chapter Charter Letter says
is that the Chapter agrees to “Establish a
bank account or other equivalent financial
account in the name of the Chapter to
receive and disburse funds, including
funding provided by the Internet Society.”
(see point 3.1.V <a
href="https://www.internetsociety.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/2018-2020-ISOC_Chapter_Charter_Agreement-Apr2020.pdf"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">
https://www.internetsociety.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/2018-2020-ISOC_Chapter_Charter_Agreement-Apr2020.pdf</a>)</div>
<div>Any "equivalent financial account" would
have to be legal and secure (and auditable),
and the Chapter would need to make and
receive payments to and from it in the name
of the Chapter as a legal organization.
<div>
<div> <br>
Wyn, to your question: <br>
<blockquote type="cite">In this vein, i
am also seeking clarification of your
second bullet point below -- "For
Chapters in a country where legal
registration is not necessary to open
a bank account in the official name of
the Chapter ..." -- is this worded
correctly (with the "not); or should
that instead read -- "For Chapters in
a country where legal registration is
necessary to open a bank account in
the official name of the Chapter
...". <br>
</blockquote>
<br>
This is not a typo. In most cases, a
local legal registration is needed for
the bank to be able to open a bank
account in the name of the Chapter.
However, in some countries it is
possible to constitute a group that
doesn’t need a legal registration in
order to be able to open a Chapter bank
account. In South Africa for example, it
is possible to create "Voluntary
Associations" that can open bank
accounts in the name of their entity
without any formal legal
registration. Chapters who operate in a
similar legal context are invited to
reach out to us by contacting Stine
Philipsen (<a
href="mailto:philipsen@isoc.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">philipsen@isoc.org</a>)
to discuss their particular case. <br>
<br>
I hope this helps clarify some of the
points raised.</div>
<div> <br>
Best, <br>
<br>
Christine </div>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>On 3. Jul 2020, at 14:57, Christian
via Chapter-delegates <<a
href="mailto:chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br>
<div>
<div>
<p>I am sympathetic to the needs of
chapters that for whatever reason
can't viably work within their own
registered formal entity locally. <br>
</p>
<p>ISOC London was informal as it
became ISOC England which did
formalise in 1999 before it became a
chartered chapter (there was already
a formal ISOC Scotland organisation
since defunct). ISOC England again
became "informal" in the mid2000s
and stayed informal as the core of
the current team refreshed it from
2011 until a couple of years ago.</p>
<p>A sufficient stable revenue that
would at least meet our regularised
costs for at least 3 years beyond
the current financial year was for
us an essential pre condition before
we formalised. <br>
</p>
<p>So far that has happened according
to plan.</p>
<p>One thought I've had that might
help with chartered but informally
structured chapters. <br>
</p>
<p>ISOC regional offices could set up
a regional secretariat entity that
was managed by ISOC staff with
chapter leadership engagement to
handle the financial formalities for
informal chapters.<br>
</p>
<p>With grants managed from that with
chapter and ISOC trustee oversight.
It should satisfy concerns for
accountability and getting the
money doing useful things?</p>
<p>If an informal chapter starts to
get viable longer term support
locally that will allow it to
sustain its own structure and
governance then it can always do
that at a later date. <br>
</p>
<p>?<br>
</p>
<p>C<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div>On 03/07/2020 12:46,
sivasubramanian muthusamy via
Chapter-delegates wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr"><br clear="all">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>In the case
of the Chennai
Chapter, we
have opted NOT
to
incorporate,
because
incorporation
/ formation as
an NGO / Trust
requires
systematic
paperwork,
filing of
monthly /
quarterly
reports or
what we call
"returns" and
might
involve visits
to one or more
Government
offices,
additional
procedures for
receiving /
sending money
from / to
accounts
outside the
country. That
makes it
difficult for
a Chapter of
volunteers to
commit to such
processes that
might require
a Chapter
Accountant,
and in
addition would
require the
Chapter to
engage the
services of a
Chartered
Accountant and
in some cases
a Lawyer.
Professionals
with a sense
of
responsibility,
commitment and
thoroughness,
who also have
a sense of
Accountability
are expensive
in terms of
the fee
payable. As a
Chapter, who
have handled a
sum total of
about $ 6000
in 12 years,
it was unwise
to seek to
commit to
these
processes,
which would
have required
us to spend
about $5000 a
year in
professional
fees alone
merely to meet
the compliance
requirements.
The $ 5000 /
year indicated
here is
arbitrary, one
could argue
that there are
professionals
of lesser
standards who
can be engaged
at about $500
a year or even
less (not
denying that
the fee
charged is not
always a
measure of the
standards of
service
extended, but
it is often
true that
reliable
services
require a good
outlay for
professional
fees); It can
also be argued
that much more
than $ 5000 a
year is to be
set aside
towards
professional
fees, and even
additional
provisions may
be required
for legal
services;
With this
rationale,
though not
conclusively
decided not to
incorporate in
some form, we
have been
hesitating;
We do have a
bank account,
though I am
not saying
this to ask
for admin
funding right
now.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Sivasubramanian
M</div>
<div>Internet
Society India
Chennai </div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On
Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 3:35 PM
Winthrop Yu via
Chapter-delegates <<a
href="mailto:chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
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rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>Thank you for your
comprehensive reply
Christine. <br>
</p>
<p>During the campaign for
signing by all Chapters of
the Chapter Letter, correct
me if i misheard or do not
remember correctly, but i
distinctly recall your
mentioning that alternative
procedures would be made
available for those Chapters
in countries where a bank
account requires full
incorporation. I mention
this again as in some
developing countries such a
registration, particularly
for non-profit entities, is
extremely onerous. This is
does not just entail
red-tape and the usual
mandatory regulatory
requirements, but the
surrender of personal
privacy; for example a
requirement that all
officers of such an entity
sign waivers allowing
scrutiny of all personal
bank accounts. In a country
where there is reasonable
rule of law, this may
perhaps be barely
reasonable. In a country
where the government can and
does "weaponize" the law,
this represents a
significant risk and threat
against the officers of such
an entity. <br>
</p>
<p>In this vein, i am also
seeking clarification of
your second bullet point
below -- "<i>For Chapters in
a country where legal
registration is <b>not</b>
necessary to open a bank
account in the official
name of the Chapter ...</i>"
-- is this worded correctly
(with the "not); or should
that instead read -- "<i>For
Chapters in a country
where legal registration <b>is</b>
necessary to open a bank
account in the official
name of the Chapter ...</i>".
<br>
</p>
<p>Kindly advise, thank you! <br>
</p>
<p>WYn<i><br>
</i></p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div>On 3 Jul 2020 5:20 pm,
Christine Saegesser via
Chapter-delegates wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div
id="gmail-m_3203087013481207787gmail-m_4431613232573144261magicdomid2"><span>Dear
Chapter Leaders,</span></div>
<div
id="gmail-m_3203087013481207787gmail-m_4431613232573144261magicdomid3"><span> </span></div>
<div
id="gmail-m_3203087013481207787gmail-m_4431613232573144261magicdomid508"><span>Thanks
a lot for sharing your
thoughts around </span><span>the </span><span>Chapter
Admin Funding </span><span>Programme </span><span>(and
other funding programs),
please know that all
your feedback is noted
and taken into
consideration for future
improvements.</span></div>
<div
id="gmail-m_3203087013481207787gmail-m_4431613232573144261magicdomid5"><br>
</div>
<div
id="gmail-m_3203087013481207787gmail-m_4431613232573144261magicdomid532"><span>We
will </span><span>be in
touch with</span><span> the
Chapter Advisory Council
Steering Committee</span><span> </span><span>later
this year to </span><span>agree
on</span><span> a
timeline that works </span><span>better
for everyone for 2021. </span></div>
<div
id="gmail-m_3203087013481207787gmail-m_4431613232573144261magicdomid29"><span> </span></div>
<div
id="gmail-m_3203087013481207787gmail-m_4431613232573144261magicdomid69"><span>Based
on the comments on the
list, we also</span><span> wish
to share some
clarifications that are
hopefully to everyone’s
benefit:</span></div>
<div
id="gmail-m_3203087013481207787gmail-m_4431613232573144261magicdomid9"><span> </span></div>
<div
id="gmail-m_3203087013481207787gmail-m_4431613232573144261magicdomid10"><span>Bank
Accounts and Funding
Eligibility</span><span>:</span></div>
<ul>
<li><span>The requirement
to have a bank account
in the name of the
Chapter/SIG is not a
new requirement. This
was introduced in 2018
as reflected in the
updated Charter
Letters, and required
for the Internet
Society and the
Internet Society
Foundation to comply
with their own
accounting and
liability requirements
(see point 3.1.V </span><span><a
href="https://www.internetsociety.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/2018-2020-ISOC_Chapter_Charter_Agreement-Apr2020.pdf"
rel="noreferrer
nofollow"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.internetsociety.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/2018-2020-ISOC_Chapter_Charter_Agreement-Apr2020.pdf</a></span><span>).</span></li>
<li><span>For Chapters in
a country where legal
registration is not
necessary to open a
bank account in the
official name of the
Chapter, please reach
out to Stine
Philipsen (<a
href="mailto:philipsen@isoc.org"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">philipsen@isoc.org</a>)
with some background
on the local setting
your Chapter is
operating in. We
evaluate these
circumstances on a
case-by-case basis.</span></li>
<li><span>Concerning the
2019 round of
evaluations: </span><span>Please</span><span> </span><span>keep
in mind that </span><span>additional
time was needed to
evaluate the
applications last year
since we were missing </span><span>documentation
(legal registration
and matching bank
account) </span><span>from
a number of Chapters.
We needed to have
these documents on
file for being</span><span> able
to disburse funds. </span></li>
</ul>
<div
id="gmail-m_3203087013481207787gmail-m_4431613232573144261magicdomid14"><span> </span></div>
<div
id="gmail-m_3203087013481207787gmail-m_4431613232573144261magicdomid130"><span>Internet
Society & Internet
Society Foundation </span><span>Funding
Programs:</span></div>
<ul>
<li><span>The Foundation
handles
project-related
funding for Chapters
as well as additional
funding programs open
to a wider audience</span><span>.
T</span><span>his
includes Beyond the
Net, SCILLS,</span><span> IGF
and COVID19 Emergency
Response, </span><span><a
href="https://www.isocfoundation.org/funding-areas/" rel="noreferrer
nofollow"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">please
refer to 'Funding
Areas' on the
Foundation website</a></span><span>.</span></li>
<li><span>The Internet
Society manages the </span><span>Chapter </span><span>Admin
Funding (for the day
to day running of
Chapters/SIGs) and the
Chapterthon. </span><span>For
Chapter Admin
Funding, </span><span><a
href="https://www.internetsociety.org/grants/chapter-admin-funding/"
rel="noreferrer
nofollow"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">please
refer to 'Chapter
Admin Funding' on
the Internet Society
website.</a></span></li>
</ul>
<div
id="gmail-m_3203087013481207787gmail-m_4431613232573144261magicdomid18"><br>
</div>
<div
id="gmail-m_3203087013481207787gmail-m_4431613232573144261magicdomid19"><span>Deadline
for Chapter Admin
Funding:</span></div>
<ul>
<li><span>The</span><span> 30
June deadline
(including funding
requirements) has been
communicated via
numerous Chapter
Updates, regional
calls and updates, and
is listed on the
website under the
Chapter Admin Funding
section. If you
consider there to be
gaps in our
communication around
important deadlines,
we welcome your
suggestions on how you
wish to receive this
information. Please
share this feedback
directly with your </span><span>Regional
Community Engagement</span><span> Managers.</span></li>
<li><span>From a systems
perspective, the
'Valid until July 01,
2020' is to ensure the
program remains open
and all applications
submitted within the
30 June 2020 deadline
are well-received </span><span><u>across
all time zones</u></span><span>.</span></li>
</ul>
<div
id="gmail-m_3203087013481207787gmail-m_4431613232573144261magicdomid22"><br>
</div>
<div
id="gmail-m_3203087013481207787gmail-m_4431613232573144261magicdomid403"><span>General
comment: </span></div>
<ul>
<li><span>As Stine
mentioned in her
e-mail to the list on
1 July, we kindly ask
those Chapters facing
issues linked to the
unusual circumstances
the world is facing
this year to contact
her (Stine Philipsen)
directly at <</span><span><a
href="mailto:philipsen@isoc.org" rel="noreferrer nofollow"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">philipsen@isoc.org</a></span><span>>
by 15 July, so we can
evaluate potential
solutions for their
Admin Funding
requests.</span></li>
</ul>
<div
id="gmail-m_3203087013481207787gmail-m_4431613232573144261magicdomid389"><br>
</div>
<div
id="gmail-m_3203087013481207787gmail-m_4431613232573144261magicdomid23"><span>Thanks
again for your
collaboration. As
mentioned, </span><span>your
fe</span><span>edback
and suggestions are</span><span> noted
and taken into
consideration for future
improvements </span><span>of
our Chapter Admin
Funding program.</span></div>
<div
id="gmail-m_3203087013481207787gmail-m_4431613232573144261magicdomid451"><br>
</div>
<div
id="gmail-m_3203087013481207787gmail-m_4431613232573144261magicdomid456"><span>Best, </span></div>
<div
id="gmail-m_3203087013481207787gmail-m_4431613232573144261magicdomid456"><span><br>
</span></div>
<div
id="gmail-m_3203087013481207787gmail-m_4431613232573144261magicdomid456"><span>Christine </span></div>
<div
id="gmail-m_3203087013481207787gmail-m_4431613232573144261magicdomid456"><br>
</div>
<br>
<br>
<div>
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Saegesser Baethge</b><span
style="font-weight:normal">, Sr. Director Chapters and Individual
Members<br>
<a
href="mailto:saegesser@isoc.org"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">saegesser@isoc.org</a> | Twitter: ch_saebae<br>
</span></div>
</div>
</div>
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