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<p><font face="Verdana">At last, a clever insight about this issue!</font></p>
<p><font face="Verdana">I'm in.</font></p>
<p><font face="Verdana">But please beware of the time consumption in
this.</font></p>
<p><font face="Verdana">Have we a time-matter issue?</font></p>
<p><font face="Verdana">When you see the deadline?</font></p>
<p><font face="Verdana">Regards,</font></p>
<p><font face="Verdana">-- <br>
Juan C. Cigala</font></p>
<p><font face="Verdana"></font><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/1/2020 23:07, George Sadowsky via
Chapter-delegates wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:DF870CD6-5D3E-434C-8E42-A36CCD5323A7@gmail.com">
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I have just posted this to the ISOC Policy List.<br class="">
<div><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">Begin forwarded message:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom:
0px; margin-left: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family:
-webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica,
sans-serif; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);" class=""><b
class="">From: </b></span><span style="font-family:
-webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica,
sans-serif;" class="">George Sadowsky <<a
href="mailto:george.sadowsky@gmail.com" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">george.sadowsky@gmail.com</a>><br
class="">
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom:
0px; margin-left: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family:
-webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica,
sans-serif; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);" class=""><b
class="">Subject: </b></span><span style="font-family:
-webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica,
sans-serif;" class=""><b class="">Trying to improve
residual value from the outcome of the .org wars</b><br
class="">
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom:
0px; margin-left: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family:
-webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica,
sans-serif; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);" class=""><b
class="">Date: </b></span><span style="font-family:
-webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica,
sans-serif;" class="">March 1, 2020 at 11:05:51 PM EST<br
class="">
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom:
0px; margin-left: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family:
-webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica,
sans-serif; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);" class=""><b
class="">To: </b></span><span style="font-family:
-webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica,
sans-serif;" class="">ISOC Internet Policy <<a
href="mailto:internetpolicy@elists.isoc.org" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">internetpolicy@elists.isoc.org</a>><br
class="">
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom:
0px; margin-left: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family:
-webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica,
sans-serif; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);" class=""><b
class="">Cc: </b></span><span style="font-family:
-webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica,
sans-serif;" class="">Dainow Brandt <<a
href="mailto:bd@thinkmetrics.com" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">bd@thinkmetrics.com</a>>,
Richard Hill <<a href="mailto:rhill@hill-a.ch" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">rhill@hill-a.ch</a>><br
class="">
</span></div>
<br class="">
<div class="">
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charset=windows-1252" class="">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
line-break: after-white-space;" class="">[For reasons of
time and length, this is a more non-nuanced post than I
would really like to have made.]
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""> I feel very sympathetic to what Brandt has
written below. We are indeed in a mess, partially
self-inflicted, and it has caused the greatest rupture
ever in ISOC-member-community relations. However I do
disagree with what I think is a major implication of his
narrative; I think that we can and should be involved
and try to do better.
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Here's how I see the situation. The sale
is either going to go through or it is not going to go
through; for the purpose of this discussion I am not
taking a stand on that. Either way we have a
significant mess to clean up, to the extent that it is
possible to do so. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">If the sale goes through, I want to ensure
to the best of my ability that what makes .org special
is preserved. In this case, perception shapes
reality; if a lot of people believe that .org is an
important institution in the domain name world and a
haven for not-for-profits and is not 'just another
registry,' then it is so on the strength of those
beliefs. This seems to be the case, so that
preserving as much of that environment and culture
becomes very important. Another issue that we will be
faced with is how to preserve the best that ISOC has
to offer and not let this incident cripple an
organization that has been so important i the past and
has the potential to continue its good work. The
fracture with a signifiant part of the membership is
serious, but we shouldn't let it have existential
consequences. There's too much good there to save.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">If the sale doesn't go through, then ISOC
will still want to divest itself of PIR dnd therefore
of .org. If divestiture is certain, and based upon
current rhetoric it appears to be, then ISOC will need
strong guidance to ensure that there is a process and
an end result that are both generally acceptable to
the community overall. There will also remain a lot
of healing between organization and membership that
will have to be tended to.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">In either case, there's a lot of work to
be done, and in either case, there's a lot of value in
working to achieve the best possible result rather
than just letting competitive and commercial forces
take their own routes and present us with what will be
essentially an organizational train wreck.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">It astonishes me that the opposing sides
(if one can describe the situation in that manner)
have never yet come forward to engage in serious
discussion regarding alternatives that might be more
acceptable all around than what we are heading to now,
and it was in the spirit of forcing that to happen
that I proposed a meeting to brainstorm alternatives
outside of the boxes that the two sides in which the
two sides exist. I view most all of the current
verbal haranguing as 'talking at each other' rather
than 'talking with each other.' Progress depends upon
doing the latter rather than the former. Some of the
people on this list seem to understand that, but
others appear not to.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I have indications that Ethos understands
this much better today than earlier when funding for
an exploratory discussion dried up. I regard this as
a positive sign. I ask members of this list,
contributors and lurkers, if any of them feel that
talking with the parties involved in the sale, in a
non-confrontational manner, not to negotiate but to
brainstorm makes sense and whether they would accept
it. If you see no other alternatives but to fight
the sale to the end and/or to demonize certain
parties, then don't bother to reply. But if you
believe that no matter what the current prognosis,
there's both room and necessity to contribute to make
the end state as good as possible for the actors and
especially for the .org community, them I'd very much
like to hear from you. We may be able to do better,
possibly much better, than the train wreck that is
quite possible and that will affect our entire
community negatively. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">We would like to revive the idea of such a
brainstorming. There is absolutely no guarantee of
success; these actions may help, or they may not. But
if we stay isolated in our silos of choice and don't
try, we'll never know, and what a shame that would
be. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I am attaching an informal description of
the proposed first meeting for your reference.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">George </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">
<div class=""><span style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;"
class="">~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~</span><br
style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class="">
<span style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class="">George
Sadowsky
Residence tel: +1.301.968</span><span
style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class="">.4325</span></div>
<div class=""><span style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;"
class="">8300 Burdette Road, Apt B-472
Mobile: +1.202.415.1933</span><br
style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class="">
<span style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class="">Bethesda
MD 20817-2831 USA
Skype: sadowsky </span><br
style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class="">
<span style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class=""><a
href="mailto:george.sadowsky@gmail.com" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">george.sadowsky@gmail.com</a>
<a
href="http://www.georgesadowsky.org/" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.georgesadowsky.org/</a> </span><br
style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class="">
</div>
<div class=""><span style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;"
class=""><br class="">
</span></div>
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
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<blockquote type="cite" class="">
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<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Feb 28, 2020, at 2:06 PM,
Brandt Dainow via InternetPolicy <<a
href="mailto:internetpolicy@elists.isoc.org"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">internetpolicy@elists.isoc.org</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div class="WordSection1" style="page:
WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none;">
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);" class="">I attended yesterday’s
webinar with Ethos and was profoundly
disappointed. I don’t think there is
any point in further conversations with
Ethos. Erik’s attempt to persuade was
so far from my thinking it made me see
any agreement or compromise is
impossible. Erik talked business. His
perspective is that the entire internet
domain management system, from ICANN
down, is a business - the business of
selling the ability to have a website.
He talked about branding, expansion,
customers, market share etc. He talked
about changing from a .org to a
different domain type as nothing more
than a choice of equal (and competing)
products. To him, all that is happening
is the PIR business is being sold by one
business to another business. <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);" class="">I don’t see the .org
registration system that way. To me, it
is a public utility. So are all the
TLD’s. I don’t think its OK for society
to run all its public utilities, in any
sector, as commercial businesses. .Org
is the last free space on the internet.
I’ve worked on the internet since 1988
and the web since 1992. I’ve watched a
free open terrain of boundless
possibilities get chopped up and
enclosed by greedy corporations until
this is the last bit left unpolluted.
In some ways I feel like my life’s work
has been destroyed.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);" class="">The very points Erik put
forward in an effort to persuade us were
points which would only persuade a
business owner looking at it his way.
The fact he used these points shows he
has no comprehension of the real
motivations behind the concerns of the
.org community.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);" class="">What Ethos offer
doesn’t, and never can, address all the
concerns of the .org community. To do
so would bind Ethos to a degree no
sensible business could accept. It
would require running the PIR like a
public utility – with accountability,
transparency, democratic governance,
etc. Of course, ISOC needs to move in
that direction as well. But that will
only happen in the face of terrific
resistance from the vested interests
currently enjoying their dominance of
ISOC leadership. I’m not sure ISOC is
fixable.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);" class="">I realise now there is a
profound difference between what I
joined ISOC for and what ISOC leadership
think ISOC is for. I joined because I
wanted to be part of a global community
working to maintain the good order of
the internet, develop it in a manner
which benefited all humanity,
represented the concerns and interests
of its members, and which maintained a
watch over the internet in general, and
used its reputation and reach to
preserve what is best about the
internet. I suspect many others are in
the same position. It is, of course, my
fault. I assumed the missions were
examples of a deeper and wider concern
by ISOC for the internet in general. In
reality they are the only things ISOC
cares about.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);" class="">10 years of membership
have taught me ISOC is only interested
in the members as tools for fulfilling
it’s individual missions, is opposed to
genuine democratic governance, and has
no concern for the general state of the
internet. It does not see its missions
in terms of the wider health of the
internet – it is narrowly focused within
those missions only. The individual
missions are very worthy, but I joined
ISOC for more than just those.
Meanwhile, leadership demonstrates a
profound ignorance of social, cultural,
political and civic issues and the full
range of global perspectives. In truth,
ISOC is not fit for purpose.
Unfortunately, there is no competing
organisation which does care about the
overall health of the internet and has
the reach to do anything about it. ISOC
is the closest to what is needed, but
still miles away from it.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);" class="">The reality is there is
no one standing up for the ordinary
person on the internet. It should be
ISOC, but ISOC isn’t up to the task.<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times
New Roman", serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p
class=""> </o:p></span></div>
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space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">
<div class="">
<div class=""><span style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;"
class="">~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~</span><br
style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class="">
<span style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class="">George
Sadowsky
Residence tel: +1.301.968</span><span
style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class="">.4325</span></div>
<div class=""><span style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;"
class="">8300 Burdette Road, Apt B-472
Mobile: +1.202.415.1933</span><br
style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class="">
<span style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class="">Bethesda
MD 20817-2831 USA
Skype: sadowsky </span><br
style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class="">
<span style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class=""><a
href="mailto:george.sadowsky@gmail.com"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">george.sadowsky@gmail.com</a>
<a
href="http://www.georgesadowsky.org/"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.georgesadowsky.org/</a> </span><br
style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class="">
</div>
<div class=""><span style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;"
class=""><br class="">
</span></div>
</div>
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