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    <p><font face="Verdana">At last, a clever insight about this issue!</font></p>
    <p><font face="Verdana">I'm in.</font></p>
    <p><font face="Verdana">But please beware of the time consumption in
        this.</font></p>
    <p><font face="Verdana">Have we a time-matter issue?</font></p>
    <p><font face="Verdana">When you see the deadline?</font></p>
    <p><font face="Verdana">Regards,</font></p>
    <p><font face="Verdana">-- <br>
        Juan C. Cigala</font></p>
    <p><font face="Verdana"></font><br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/1/2020 23:07, George Sadowsky via
      Chapter-delegates wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:DF870CD6-5D3E-434C-8E42-A36CCD5323A7@gmail.com">
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      I have just posted this to the ISOC Policy List.<br class="">
      <div><br class="">
        <blockquote type="cite" class="">
          <div class="">Begin forwarded message:</div>
          <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
          <div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom:
            0px; margin-left: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family:
              -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica,
              sans-serif; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);" class=""><b
                class="">From: </b></span><span style="font-family:
              -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica,
              sans-serif;" class="">George Sadowsky <<a
                href="mailto:george.sadowsky@gmail.com" class=""
                moz-do-not-send="true">george.sadowsky@gmail.com</a>><br
                class="">
            </span></div>
          <div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom:
            0px; margin-left: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family:
              -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica,
              sans-serif; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);" class=""><b
                class="">Subject: </b></span><span style="font-family:
              -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica,
              sans-serif;" class=""><b class="">Trying to improve
                residual value from the outcome of the .org wars</b><br
                class="">
            </span></div>
          <div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom:
            0px; margin-left: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family:
              -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica,
              sans-serif; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);" class=""><b
                class="">Date: </b></span><span style="font-family:
              -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica,
              sans-serif;" class="">March 1, 2020 at 11:05:51 PM EST<br
                class="">
            </span></div>
          <div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom:
            0px; margin-left: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family:
              -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica,
              sans-serif; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);" class=""><b
                class="">To: </b></span><span style="font-family:
              -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica,
              sans-serif;" class="">ISOC Internet Policy <<a
                href="mailto:internetpolicy@elists.isoc.org" class=""
                moz-do-not-send="true">internetpolicy@elists.isoc.org</a>><br
                class="">
            </span></div>
          <div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom:
            0px; margin-left: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family:
              -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica,
              sans-serif; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);" class=""><b
                class="">Cc: </b></span><span style="font-family:
              -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica,
              sans-serif;" class="">Dainow Brandt <<a
                href="mailto:bd@thinkmetrics.com" class=""
                moz-do-not-send="true">bd@thinkmetrics.com</a>>,
              Richard Hill <<a href="mailto:rhill@hill-a.ch" class=""
                moz-do-not-send="true">rhill@hill-a.ch</a>><br
                class="">
            </span></div>
          <br class="">
          <div class="">
            <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
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            <div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
              line-break: after-white-space;" class="">[For reasons of
              time and length, this is a more non-nuanced post than I
              would really like to have made.]
              <div class=""><br class="">
              </div>
              <div class=""> I feel very sympathetic to what Brandt has
                written below.  We are indeed in a mess, partially
                self-inflicted, and it has caused the greatest rupture
                ever in ISOC-member-community relations. However I do
                disagree with what I think is a major implication of his
                narrative; I think that we can and should be involved
                and try to do better.
                <div class=""><br class="">
                </div>
                <div class="">Here's how I see the situation.  The sale
                  is either going to go through or it is not going to go
                  through; for the purpose of this discussion I am not
                  taking a stand on that.  Either way we have a
                  significant mess to clean up, to the extent that it is
                  possible to do so. </div>
                <div class=""><br class="">
                </div>
                <div class="">If the sale goes through, I want to ensure
                  to the best of my ability that what makes .org special
                  is preserved.  In this case, perception shapes
                  reality; if a lot of people believe that .org is an
                  important institution in the domain name world and a
                  haven for not-for-profits and is not 'just another
                  registry,' then it is so on the strength of those
                  beliefs.   This seems to be the case, so that
                  preserving as much of that environment and culture
                  becomes very important.  Another issue that we will be
                  faced with is how to preserve the best that ISOC has
                  to offer and not let this incident cripple an
                  organization that has been so important i the past and
                  has the potential to continue its good work.  The
                  fracture with a signifiant part of the membership is
                  serious, but we shouldn't let it have existential
                  consequences.  There's too much good there to save.</div>
                <div class=""><br class="">
                </div>
                <div class="">If the sale doesn't go through, then ISOC
                  will still want to divest itself of PIR dnd  therefore
                  of .org.  If divestiture is certain, and based upon
                  current rhetoric it appears to be, then ISOC will need
                  strong guidance to ensure that there is a process and
                  an end result that are both generally acceptable to
                  the community overall.  There will also remain a lot
                  of healing between organization and membership that
                  will have to be tended to.</div>
                <div class=""><br class="">
                </div>
                <div class="">In either case, there's a lot of work to
                  be done, and in either case, there's a lot of value in
                  working to achieve the best possible result rather
                  than just letting competitive and commercial forces
                  take their own routes and present us with what will be
                  essentially an organizational train wreck.</div>
                <div class=""><br class="">
                </div>
                <div class="">It astonishes me that the opposing sides
                  (if one can describe the situation in that manner)
                  have never yet come forward to engage in serious
                  discussion regarding alternatives that might be more
                  acceptable all around than what we are heading to now,
                  and it was in the spirit of forcing that to happen
                  that I proposed a meeting to brainstorm alternatives
                  outside of the boxes that the two sides in which the
                  two sides exist.  I view most  all of the current
                  verbal haranguing as 'talking at each other' rather
                  than 'talking with each other.'  Progress depends upon
                  doing the latter rather than the former.  Some of the
                  people on this list seem to understand that, but
                  others appear not to.</div>
                <div class=""><br class="">
                </div>
                <div class="">I have indications that Ethos understands
                  this much better today than earlier when funding for
                  an exploratory discussion dried up.  I regard this as
                  a positive sign.  I ask members of this list,
                  contributors and lurkers, if any of them feel that
                  talking with the parties involved in the sale, in a
                  non-confrontational manner, not to negotiate but to
                  brainstorm makes sense and whether they would accept
                   it.  If you see no other alternatives but to fight
                  the sale to the end and/or to demonize certain
                  parties, then don't bother to reply.  But if you
                  believe that no matter what the current prognosis,
                  there's both room and necessity to contribute to make
                  the end state as good as possible for the actors and
                  especially for the .org community, them I'd very much
                  like to hear from you. We may be able to do better,
                  possibly much better, than the train wreck that is
                  quite possible and that will affect our entire
                  community negatively.  </div>
                <div class=""><br class="">
                </div>
                <div class="">We would like to revive the idea of such a
                  brainstorming.  There is absolutely no guarantee of
                  success; these actions may help, or they may not.  But
                  if we stay isolated in our silos of choice and don't
                  try, we'll never know, and what a shame that would
                  be. </div>
                <div class=""><br class="">
                </div>
                <div class="">I am attaching an informal description of
                  the proposed first meeting for your reference.</div>
                <div class=""><br class="">
                </div>
                <div class="">George </div>
                <div class=""><br class="">
                </div>
                <div class="">
                  <div class=""><span style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;"
                      class="">~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~</span><br
                      style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class="">
                    <span style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class="">George
                      Sadowsky                                  
                       Residence tel: +1.301.968</span><span
                      style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class="">.4325</span></div>
                  <div class=""><span style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;"
                      class="">8300 Burdette Road, Apt B-472            
                                   Mobile: +1.202.415.1933</span><br
                      style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class="">
                    <span style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class="">Bethesda
                      MD  20817-2831  USA                              
                           Skype: sadowsky      </span><br
                      style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class="">
                    <span style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class=""><a
                        href="mailto:george.sadowsky@gmail.com" class=""
                        moz-do-not-send="true">george.sadowsky@gmail.com</a>
                                     <a
                        href="http://www.georgesadowsky.org/" class=""
                        moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.georgesadowsky.org/</a> </span><br
                      style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class="">
                  </div>
                  <div class=""><span style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;"
                      class=""><br class="">
                    </span></div>
                </div>
                <div class=""><br class="">
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
          </div>
        </blockquote>
      </div>
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                    <div class="">~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~</div>
                    <div class=""><br class="">
                      <blockquote type="cite" class="">
                        <div class="">On Feb 28, 2020, at 2:06 PM,
                          Brandt Dainow via InternetPolicy <<a
                            href="mailto:internetpolicy@elists.isoc.org"
                            class="" moz-do-not-send="true">internetpolicy@elists.isoc.org</a>>
                          wrote:</div>
                        <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
                        <div class="">
                          <div class="WordSection1" style="page:
                            WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                            font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px;
                            font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
                            normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
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                            text-decoration: none;">
                            <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times
                              New Roman", serif;" class=""><span
                                style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                                Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
                                125);" class="">I attended yesterday’s
                                webinar with Ethos and was profoundly
                                disappointed.  I don’t think there is
                                any point in further conversations with
                                Ethos.  Erik’s attempt to persuade was
                                so far from my thinking it made me see
                                any agreement or compromise is
                                impossible.  Erik talked business.  His
                                perspective is that the entire internet
                                domain management system, from ICANN
                                down, is a business - the business of
                                selling the ability to have a website. 
                                He talked about branding, expansion,
                                customers, market share etc.  He talked
                                about changing from a .org to a
                                different domain type as nothing more
                                than a choice of equal (and competing)
                                products.  To him, all that is happening
                                is the PIR business is being sold by one
                                business to another business. <span
                                  class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p
                                  class=""></o:p></span></div>
                            <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times
                              New Roman", serif;" class=""><span
                                style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                                Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
                                125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div>
                            <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times
                              New Roman", serif;" class=""><span
                                style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                                Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
                                125);" class="">I don’t see the .org
                                registration system that way.  To me, it
                                is a public utility.  So are all the
                                TLD’s.  I don’t think its OK for society
                                to run all its public utilities, in any
                                sector, as commercial businesses.  .Org
                                is the last free space on the internet. 
                                I’ve worked on the internet since 1988
                                and the web since 1992.  I’ve watched a
                                free open terrain of boundless
                                possibilities get chopped up and
                                enclosed by greedy corporations until
                                this is the last bit left unpolluted. 
                                In some ways I feel like my life’s work
                                has been destroyed.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
                            <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times
                              New Roman", serif;" class=""><span
                                style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                                Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
                                125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div>
                            <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times
                              New Roman", serif;" class=""><span
                                style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                                Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
                                125);" class="">The very points Erik put
                                forward in an effort to persuade us were
                                points which would only persuade a
                                business owner looking at it his way. 
                                The fact he used these points shows he
                                has no comprehension of the real
                                motivations behind the concerns of the
                                .org community.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
                            <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times
                              New Roman", serif;" class=""><span
                                style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                                Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
                                125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div>
                            <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times
                              New Roman", serif;" class=""><span
                                style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                                Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
                                125);" class="">What Ethos offer
                                doesn’t, and never can, address all the
                                concerns of the .org community.  To do
                                so would bind Ethos to a degree no
                                sensible business could accept.  It
                                would require running the PIR like a
                                public utility – with accountability,
                                transparency, democratic governance,
                                etc.  Of course, ISOC needs to move in
                                that direction as well.  But that will
                                only happen in the face of terrific
                                resistance from the vested interests
                                currently enjoying their dominance of
                                ISOC leadership.  I’m not sure ISOC is
                                fixable.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
                            <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times
                              New Roman", serif;" class=""><span
                                style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                                Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
                                125);" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
                            <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times
                              New Roman", serif;" class=""><span
                                style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                                Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
                                125);" class="">I realise now there is a
                                profound difference between what I
                                joined ISOC for and what ISOC leadership
                                think ISOC is for.  I joined because I
                                wanted to be part of a global community
                                working to maintain the good order of
                                the internet, develop it in a manner
                                which benefited all humanity,
                                represented the concerns and interests
                                of its members, and which maintained a
                                watch over the internet in general, and
                                used its reputation and reach to
                                preserve what is best about the
                                internet.  I suspect many others are in
                                the same position.  It is, of course, my
                                fault.  I assumed the missions were
                                examples of a deeper and wider concern
                                by ISOC for the internet in general.  In
                                reality they are the only things ISOC
                                cares about.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
                            <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times
                              New Roman", serif;" class=""><span
                                style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                                Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
                                125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div>
                            <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times
                              New Roman", serif;" class=""><span
                                style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                                Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
                                125);" class="">10 years of membership
                                have taught me ISOC is only interested
                                in the members as tools for fulfilling
                                it’s individual missions, is opposed to
                                genuine democratic governance, and has
                                no concern for the general state of the
                                internet.  It does not see its missions
                                in terms of the wider health of the
                                internet – it is narrowly focused within
                                those missions only.  The individual
                                missions are very worthy, but I joined
                                ISOC for more than just those.
                                 Meanwhile, leadership demonstrates a
                                profound ignorance of social, cultural,
                                political and civic issues and the full
                                range of global perspectives.  In truth,
                                ISOC is not fit for purpose. 
                                Unfortunately, there is no competing
                                organisation which does care about the
                                overall health of the internet and has
                                the reach to do anything about it. ISOC
                                is the closest to what is needed, but
                                still miles away from it.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
                            <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times
                              New Roman", serif;" class=""><span
                                style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                                Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
                                125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div>
                            <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times
                              New Roman", serif;" class=""><span
                                style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                                Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
                                125);" class="">The reality is there is
                                no one standing up for the ordinary
                                person on the internet.  It should be
                                ISOC, but ISOC isn’t up to the task.<o:p
                                  class=""></o:p></span></div>
                            <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times
                              New Roman", serif;" class=""><span
                                style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
                                Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p
                                  class=""> </o:p></span></div>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </blockquote>
                    </div>
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          </div>
        </blockquote>
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                  <div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode:
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                    <div class="">
                      <div class=""><span style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;"
                          class="">~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~</span><br
                          style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class="">
                        <span style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class="">George
                          Sadowsky                                  
                           Residence tel: +1.301.968</span><span
                          style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class="">.4325</span></div>
                      <div class=""><span style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;"
                          class="">8300 Burdette Road, Apt B-472        
                                           Mobile: +1.202.415.1933</span><br
                          style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class="">
                        <span style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class="">Bethesda
                          MD  20817-2831  USA                          
                                   Skype: sadowsky      </span><br
                          style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class="">
                        <span style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class=""><a
                            href="mailto:george.sadowsky@gmail.com"
                            class="" moz-do-not-send="true">george.sadowsky@gmail.com</a>
                                         <a
                            href="http://www.georgesadowsky.org/"
                            class="" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.georgesadowsky.org/</a> </span><br
                          style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class="">
                      </div>
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                          class=""><br class="">
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      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society Chapter Portal (AMS):
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://admin.internetsociety.org/622619/User/Login">https://admin.internetsociety.org/622619/User/Login</a>
View the Internet Society Code of Conduct: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/">https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/</a>
</pre>
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    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">
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