<html>
  <head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
  </head>
  <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
    <p>Hi John, <br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 12/12/2018 19:22, John More wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:0EDC28F2-6226-4CF3-9587-38BC250D42E9@mac.com">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      Susannah
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">ISOC’s wealth of funding, which allows it to avoid
        the hard work of individual fundraising = contacting and
        soliciting, is actually a negative for creating an effective and
        engaged membership.</div>
    </blockquote>
    <p>- Sure, but again we have to be careful with messaging here and
      making sure that the separation/relationship between ISOC and the
      Chapters is clear. <br>
    </p>
    <p>If ISOC is contacting Chapter members asking for donations (which
      was done last year) and Chapters are also asking them for
      donations, things may appear a bit disjointed. <br>
    </p>
    <p>As noted on this mailing list at the time, I was not in support
      of ISOC soliciting donations from members of my Chapter as I am of
      the opinion that if members are going to donate, they should
      donate to their local Chapter. I still stand by this because as
      you note, ISOC has a wealth of funding and really doesn't need
      that $50 that someone might throw their way.  <br>
    </p>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:0EDC28F2-6226-4CF3-9587-38BC250D42E9@mac.com">
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">Further, receiving multiple communications from ISOC
        and the Chapters may be bothersome, but if the communications
        have a different purpose and are clearly indicated as to the
        source.</div>
    </blockquote>
    <p>- Agreed. I wonder if perhaps the Chapter logo identities are now
      too similar to the ISOC identity for people to really be able to
      instantly identify the source.  <br>
    </p>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:0EDC28F2-6226-4CF3-9587-38BC250D42E9@mac.com">
      <div class="">  Planned Parenthood and other activist groups have
        multiple layers of communications.  It creates an more engaged
        membership.</div>
    </blockquote>
    <p>- I'm not sure I'd class ISOC as an activist group though! <br>
    </p>
    <p>As a communications professional, I'd be interested to understand
      more about what you mean by multiple layers of communications (off
      list to spare everyone's inbox and sanity ;) ). <br>
    </p>
    <p>Cheers, <br>
    </p>
    <p>Susannah <br>
    </p>
    <p>—<br>
      Susannah Gray<br>
      President <br>
      San Francisco Bay Area Internet Society Chapter<br>
      <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.sfbayisoc.org">www.sfbayisoc.org</a><br>
    </p>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:0EDC28F2-6226-4CF3-9587-38BC250D42E9@mac.com">
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">John</div>
      <div class="">
        <div><br class="">
          <blockquote type="cite" class="">
            <div class="">On Dec 12, 2018, at 11:02 AM, Susannah Gray
              <<a href="mailto:susannah.gray@gmail.com" class=""
                moz-do-not-send="true">susannah.gray@gmail.com</a>>
              wrote:</div>
            <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
            <div class="">
              <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
                charset=UTF-8" class="">
              <div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class="">
                <p class="">Hi John, <br class="">
                </p>
                <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 12/12/2018 02:26, John
                  More wrote:<br class="">
                </div>
                <blockquote type="cite"
                  cite="mid:72C1D443-7BC6-4479-9121-44EB09889241@mac.com"
                  class="">
                  <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
                    charset=UTF-8" class="">
                  Dave
                  <div class=""><br class="">
                  </div>
                  <div class="">Much of what you say is correct. Even
                    while working to strengthen the Chapter structure
                    and bringing more accountability, I have always
                    taken the position that ISOC should not claim to be
                    a “membership” organization in that it has never
                    done anything to create an effective, connected
                    membership. I have been a member for years.  I have
                    even given made the $75 contribution.  Nothing.  No
                    regular communications are sent from ISOC, only from
                    the Chapter.  There is no solicitation of donations,
                    there are no calls to action, there are virtually no
                    communications unless you sign onto a specific
                    e-list of project.</div>
                </blockquote>
                - I agree that communication from ISOC could be
                improved. However, I do not feel that ISOC should be
                sending out more communication to members as care needs
                to be taken to avoid confusion and mixed messages as
                people are already unsure of the split between ISOC and
                the Chapters. <br class="">
              </div>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
          <div><br class="">
          </div>
          All that says is that ISOC needs to do a better job
          communicating those differences — in part by underlining what
          ISOC does and what its relationship with the 40,000 members
          is.<br class="">
          <blockquote type="cite" class="">
            <div class="">
              <div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class="">
                <blockquote type="cite"
                  cite="mid:72C1D443-7BC6-4479-9121-44EB09889241@mac.com"
                  class="">
                  <div class=""><br class="">
                  </div>
                  <div class="">Sharp contrast with international
                    organizations, like Greenpeace, Amnesty
                    International, or Human Rights Watch.</div>
                </blockquote>
                <p class="">- Greenpeace is fully funded by individuals
                  (it does not accept donations from corporations) so it
                  needs to maintain a constant dialogue with its
                  members, which is not the case with ISOC. </p>
              </div>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
          <div><br class="">
          </div>
          But that is the whole point. ISOC does need to communicate
          better with its members. Otherwise why does it list them as
          organizing tools.  Should say ISOC has 40,000 members,
          _______? of whom are engaged through Chapters, but most of
          whom are just names.</div>
        <div><br class="">
          <blockquote type="cite" class="">
            <div class="">
              <div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class="">
                <blockquote type="cite"
                  cite="mid:72C1D443-7BC6-4479-9121-44EB09889241@mac.com"
                  class="">
                  <div class=""><br class="">
                  </div>
                  <div class="">A friend who had been with the
                    Physicians for Social Responsibility came out of
                    retirement to lead The Rachel Carson Council.  He
                    has re-energized and increased the membership by
                    soliciting, sending newsletters, asking for
                    activism, creating intern training programs and
                    college campus councils — all to engage in
                    environmental justice activism.</div>
                </blockquote>
                <p class="">- The San Francisco Bay Area ISOC Chapter
                  sends out newsletters every couple of weeks (using
                  MailerLite) to its members and updates its website
                  regularly with snippets of news - it's not a hard/time
                  consuming task. The AMS is not the best tool for this
                  but it does the job and it is free for all the
                  Chapters. <br class="">
                </p>
                <p class="">I think rather than ISOC upping its
                  communication to the general membership it might need
                  to direct/assist Chapter leaders more with their
                  communications needs. While I wholeheartedly support
                  the bottom up, multistakeholder ethos, I believe some
                  general direction is needed by many of the Chapters in
                  terms of the kind of general Internet-related news and
                  issues they should be informing their members about
                  and the tools that can help them do it.<br class="">
                </p>
                <p class="">Thanks, <br class="">
                </p>
                <p class="">Susannah <br class="">
                </p>
                <p class="">—<br class="">
                  Susannah Gray<br class="">
                  President <br class="">
                  San Francisco Bay Area Internet Society Chapter<br
                    class="">
                  <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
                    href="http://www.sfbayisoc.org/"
                    moz-do-not-send="true">www.sfbayisoc.org</a><br
                    class="">
                  <br class="">
                </p>
                <blockquote type="cite"
                  cite="mid:72C1D443-7BC6-4479-9121-44EB09889241@mac.com"
                  class="">
                  <div class=""><br class="">
                  </div>
                  <div class="">ISOC needs more this.  And it does not
                    require hiring consultants.</div>
                  <div class=""><br class="">
                  </div>
                  <div class="">The only caveat I have with what you say
                    is that you love broadsides and are rarely willing
                    to admit where things are happening.</div>
                  <div class=""><br class="">
                  </div>
                  <div class="">But your point is well taken.</div>
                  <div class=""><br class="">
                  </div>
                  <div class="">John More</div>
                  <div class=""><br class="">
                  </div>
                  <div class=""><br class="">
                    <div class=""><br class="">
                      <blockquote type="cite" class="">
                        <div class="">On Dec 11, 2018, at 6:01 PM, Dave
                          Burstein <<a
                            href="mailto:daveb@dslprime.com" class=""
                            moz-do-not-send="true">daveb@dslprime.com</a>>
                          wrote:</div>
                        <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
                        <div class="">
                          <div dir="ltr" class="">
                            <div class="gmail_default"
                              style="font-family:trebuchet
                              ms,sans-serif">All</div>
                            <div class="gmail_default"
                              style="font-family:trebuchet
                              ms,sans-serif"><br class="">
                            </div>
                            <div class="gmail_default"
                              style="font-family:trebuchet
                              ms,sans-serif">Andrew notes, accurately,
                              that ISOC's membership should not have
                              been claimed we had 110,000 members.</div>
                            <div class="gmail_default"
                              style="font-family:trebuchet
                              ms,sans-serif"><br class="">
                            </div>
                            <div class="gmail_default"
                              style="font-family:trebuchet
                              ms,sans-serif"><b class="">The figure was
                                prominently on our home page, however. </b>Those
                              closely involved in ISOC always knew it
                              was inaccurate, but refused to take it off
                              the home page even after it was brought up
                              and discussed at the top. ISOC used the
                              claim in advocacy. </div>
                            <div class="gmail_default"
                              style="font-family:trebuchet
                              ms,sans-serif"><br class="">
                            </div>
                            <div class="gmail_default"
                              style="font-family:trebuchet
                              ms,sans-serif">The home page also said
                              ISOC was "a trusted source." Trust needs
                              to be earned, not claimed.</div>
                            <div class="gmail_default"
                              style="font-family:trebuchet
                              ms,sans-serif"><br class="">
                            </div>
                            <div class="gmail_default"
                              style="font-family:trebuchet
                              ms,sans-serif">All of us want to be proud
                              of what ISOC is accomplishing. We share
                              the powerful human trait of "confirmation
                              bias." It is very hard for anyone to
                              listen to what disagrees with one's own
                              beliefs, including that a group we are
                              part of is to be admired. </div>
                            <div class="gmail_default"
                              style="font-family:trebuchet
                              ms,sans-serif"><br class="">
                            </div>
                            <div class="gmail_default"
                              style="font-family:trebuchet
                              ms,sans-serif">ISOC, almost all of us
                              agree, can and should be doing more to
                              bring a great Internet to everyone. (We
                              disagree on how to do that, of course.) </div>
                            <div class="gmail_default"
                              style="font-family:trebuchet
                              ms,sans-serif"><br class="">
                            </div>
                            <div class="gmail_default"
                              style="font-family:trebuchet
                              ms,sans-serif">To be effective, we need to
                              look honestly at what we are doing. In
                              practice, those raising problems were
                              told, "you're shouldn't be so negative,"
                              often attacked and shot down. </div>
                            <div class="gmail_default"
                              style="font-family:trebuchet
                              ms,sans-serif"><br class="">
                            </div>
                            <div class="gmail_default"
                              style="font-family:trebuchet
                              ms,sans-serif">I'm still here, because I
                              believe ISOC, with a $30M/year subsidy
                              from .org, has the potential to be the
                              most powerful <u class="">pro-consumer</u> force
                              on the net. But I've watched for several
                              years as those who agreed, and supported
                              issues like more chapter funding got
                              burned out and left. </div>
                            <div class="gmail_default"
                              style="font-family:trebuchet
                              ms,sans-serif"><br class="">
                            </div>
                            <div class="gmail_default"
                              style="font-family:trebuchet
                              ms,sans-serif">I knew Kathy for years as
                              one of the most progressive in D.C.
                              circles and expected her to do much more.
                              I know several of the board members to be
                              hardworking, articulate, concerned, and of
                              good faith. I know the same is true of
                              Andrew. </div>
                            <div class="gmail_default"
                              style="font-family:trebuchet
                              ms,sans-serif"><br class="">
                            </div>
                            <div class="gmail_default"
                              style="font-family:trebuchet
                              ms,sans-serif">Can we be honest with
                              ourselves and do better? 75% of the
                              Internet is not in the U.S., Western
                              Europe, and allies. China alone is 40% and
                              their achievements remarkable. (344M have
                              fiber home connections.) I am not naive
                              about the Chinese government, but we can
                              never be truly effective organizing the
                              Internet without including them, as well
                              as the many others not well-represented
                              here.</div>
                            <div class="gmail_default"
                              style="font-family:trebuchet
                              ms,sans-serif">------------</div>
                            <div class="gmail_default"
                              style="font-family:trebuchet
                              ms,sans-serif"><br class="">
                            </div>
                            <div class="gmail_default"
                              style="font-family:trebuchet
                              ms,sans-serif">Unfortunately, Andrew is
                              wrong that we now have </div>
                            <div class="gmail_default"
                              style="font-family:trebuchet
                              ms,sans-serif"><br class="">
                            </div>
                            <div class="gmail_quote">
                              <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                                style="margin:0px 0px 0px
                                0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
                                rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">an<span
                                  class="gmail_default"
                                  style="font-family:"trebuchet
                                  ms",sans-serif"> </span>admittedly
                                smaller list of confirmed and clearly
                                engaged members.  <br class="">
                              </blockquote>
                              <div class=""><br class="">
                              </div>
                              <div class="gmail_default"
                                style="font-family:"trebuchet
                                ms",sans-serif">I wish that were
                                true. But I know in New York the
                                majority of our "members" are nothing
                                more than people who have agreed to be
                                on a mailing list. I don't think we've
                                had a meeting with even 75 of our
                                "2,500" members in at least the last 5
                                years. The maximum number of people who
                                have done <i class="">anything at all</i>
                                is perhaps 400, and very few of them are
                                "clearly engaged." </div>
                              <div class="gmail_default"
                                style="font-family:"trebuchet
                                ms",sans-serif"><br class="">
                              </div>
                              <div class="gmail_default"
                                style="font-family:"trebuchet
                                ms",sans-serif">Which I, Andrew,
                                and many others are working to improve.</div>
                              <div class="gmail_default"
                                style="font-family:"trebuchet
                                ms",sans-serif"><br class="">
                              </div>
                              <div class="gmail_default"
                                style="font-family:"trebuchet
                                ms",sans-serif">Dave</div>
                              <div class="gmail_default"
                                style="font-family:"trebuchet
                                ms",sans-serif">(Who would much
                                rather be discussing the right radios
                                for rural Africa or the unhyped
                                prospects of 5G, rather than wasting
                                time in what should be unneeded
                                organizational problems. If we become
                                the "bottom-up multi-stakeholder
                                organization" Kathy wanted us to be, we
                                would be doing a much better job
                                delivering what we all believe in.)</div>
                            </div>
                          </div>
_______________________________________________<br class="">
                          As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are
                          automatically subscribed<br class="">
                          to this list, which is regularly synchronized
                          with the Internet Society<br class="">
                          Chapter Portal (AMS): <a
                            href="https://portal.isoc.org/" class=""
                            moz-do-not-send="true">https://portal.isoc.org</a><br
                            class="">
                        </div>
                      </blockquote>
                    </div>
                    <br class="">
                  </div>
                  <br class="">
                  <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
                  <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
Chapter Portal (AMS): <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://portal.isoc.org/" moz-do-not-send="true">https://portal.isoc.org</a>
</pre>
                </blockquote>
              </div>
              _______________________________________________<br
                class="">
              As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are
              automatically subscribed<br class="">
              to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the
              Internet Society<br class="">
              Chapter Portal (AMS): <a href="https://portal.isoc.org"
                class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://portal.isoc.org</a><br
                class="">
            </div>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
        <br class="">
      </div>
    </blockquote>
  </body>
</html>