<div dir="auto">Dave,<div dir="auto">I guess what Soong is saying as an independent member of the internet is that China is not part of the statement you made.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">They work independently with thier funds and others and need not affiliate with any organisation for funding. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I quite agree with Soong and hope that this impasse passes quickly. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Dave, you are hosting me and my team soon.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Akinbo.</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Wed, 12 Dec 2018, 6:13 am Chester Soong <<a href="mailto:chester.soong@gmail.com">chester.soong@gmail.com</a> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto">While I am not representing ISOC HK in making the following comments, but I support the comments from Adebunmi and John. Joining the ISOC community means you agree and share the core values and missions of the main organization bearing that name. Otherwise, what's the point in naming your organizing with the name of the other organization? Why don't you make up your own name? If one must use the name “Internet Society” in your geographical location, does it mean majority of the internet users believe your organization represents them? You don't have to agree to everything ISOC Global or even regional bureaux are promoting, and that's why there are channels such as this mailing list to reflect that, as well as the flexibility of local chapters in organizing its own events to promote their individual values. But if the core values of global ISOC is not your cup of tea, why choose a name that your organization <span style="font-family:sans-serif"> would associated with it by others?</span><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I really wished the name, Internet Society China, was never mentioned. It is a de facto government body with individuals representing state enterprises, government organizations, and members of the Communist Party. While it is a significant organization influencing the development and governance of the Internet in China, it shares a very different mission with the rest of ISOC chapters I am afraid.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Chester </div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Wed, Dec 12, 2018, 12:52 Adebunmi AKINBO <<a href="mailto:akinbo.adebunmi@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">akinbo.adebunmi@gmail.com</a> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto">+1.</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Wed, 12 Dec 2018, 4:12 am John More <<a href="mailto:morej1@mac.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">morej1@mac.com</a> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space">Akinbo<div><br></div><div>Thanks for your thoughts. I would assert that the current leadership of ISOC, especially Andrew, is fully aware of the need and are working on the right direction of supporting Chapters and their development and their being more accountable.</div><div><br></div><div>There still needs to be additional work on what “membership” in ISOC means in addition to or as part of becoming and active member of a Chapter, especially where there is no Chapter operating.</div><div><br></div><div>John</div><div><br><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Dec 11, 2018, at 9:42 PM, Adebunmi AKINBO <<a href="mailto:akinbo.adebunmi@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">akinbo.adebunmi@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="m_-7010480861554202551m_1945210571479385242m_-1185811036265617711m_1229513850648816430Apple-interchange-newline"><div><div dir="auto"><div>John,<div dir="auto">I agree to the need to have that angle looked at considering that we had discussions on the AMS. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I believe that we need a Advocacy Director to sooth such a likely semblance of responsibility; communicating and advocating for resolutions on issues that affects countries in an advocacy approach. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">This may be the next step to address consistent engagement and updates. To address this issue you mentioned, ISOC must be ready to think outside New York and appoint a candidate that breaks boundary with passion for the job description. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">My 10kobo.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Akinbo.</div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Wed, 12 Dec 2018, 3:26 am John More <<a href="mailto:morej1@mac.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">morej1@mac.com</a> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space">Dave<div><br></div><div>Much of what you say is correct. Even while working to strengthen the Chapter structure and bringing more accountability, I have always taken the position that ISOC should not claim to be a “membership” organization in that it has never done anything to create an effective, connected membership. I have been a member for years. I have even given made the $75 contribution. Nothing. No regular communications are sent from ISOC, only from the Chapter. There is no solicitation of donations, there are no calls to action, there are virtually no communications unless you sign onto a specific e-list of project.</div><div><br></div><div>Sharp contrast with international organizations, like Greenpeace, Amnesty International, or Human Rights Watch.</div><div><br></div><div>A friend who had been with the Physicians for Social Responsibility came out of retirement to lead The Rachel Carson Council. He has re-energized and increased the membership by soliciting, sending newsletters, asking for activism, creating intern training programs and college campus councils — all to engage in environmental justice activism.</div><div><br></div><div>ISOC needs more this. And it does not require hiring consultants.</div><div><br></div><div>The only caveat I have with what you say is that you love broadsides and are rarely willing to admit where things are happening.</div><div><br></div><div>But your point is well taken.</div><div><br></div><div>John More</div><div><br></div><div><br><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Dec 11, 2018, at 6:01 PM, Dave Burstein <<a href="mailto:daveb@dslprime.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">daveb@dslprime.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="m_-7010480861554202551m_1945210571479385242m_-1185811036265617711m_1229513850648816430m_6578613552736080155Apple-interchange-newline"><div><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif">All</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif">Andrew notes, accurately, that ISOC's membership should not have been claimed we had 110,000 members.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif"><b>The figure was prominently on our home page, however. </b>Those closely involved in ISOC always knew it was inaccurate, but refused to take it off the home page even after it was brought up and discussed at the top. ISOC used the claim in advocacy. </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif">The home page also said ISOC was "a trusted source." Trust needs to be earned, not claimed.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif">All of us want to be proud of what ISOC is accomplishing. We share the powerful human trait of "confirmation bias." It is very hard for anyone to listen to what disagrees with one's own beliefs, including that a group we are part of is to be admired. </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif">ISOC, almost all of us agree, can and should be doing more to bring a great Internet to everyone. (We disagree on how to do that, of course.) </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif">To be effective, we need to look honestly at what we are doing. In practice, those raising problems were told, "you're shouldn't be so negative," often attacked and shot down. </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif">I'm still here, because I believe ISOC, with a $30M/year subsidy from .org, has the potential to be the most powerful <u>pro-consumer</u> force on the net. But I've watched for several years as those who agreed, and supported issues like more chapter funding got burned out and left. </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif">I knew Kathy for years as one of the most progressive in D.C. circles and expected her to do much more. I know several of the board members to be hardworking, articulate, concerned, and of good faith. I know the same is true of Andrew. </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif">Can we be honest with ourselves and do better? 75% of the Internet is not in the U.S., Western Europe, and allies. China alone is 40% and their achievements remarkable. (344M have fiber home connections.) I am not naive about the Chinese government, but we can never be truly effective organizing the Internet without including them, as well as the many others not well-represented here.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif">------------</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif">Unfortunately, Andrew is wrong that we now have </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:trebuchet ms,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">an<span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif"> </span>admittedly smaller list of confirmed and clearly engaged members. <br></blockquote><div><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif">I wish that were true. But I know in New York the majority of our "members" are nothing more than people who have agreed to be on a mailing list. I don't think we've had a meeting with even 75 of our "2,500" members in at least the last 5 years. The maximum number of people who have done <i>anything at all</i> is perhaps 400, and very few of them are "clearly engaged." </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif">Which I, Andrew, and many others are working to improve.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif">Dave</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif">(Who would much rather be discussing the right radios for rural Africa or the unhyped prospects of 5G, rather than wasting time in what should be unneeded organizational problems. If we become the "bottom-up multi-stakeholder organization" Kathy wanted us to be, we would be doing a much better job delivering what we all believe in.)</div></div></div>
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