<html dir="ltr"><head></head><body style="text-align:left; direction:ltr;"><div>Aren't "responsible for blockchain governance" and "proof-of-work" diametral opposites?</div><div><br></div><div>With PoW, the goal is that nobody can exert control on the contents of the blockchain [1]. To me, this implies that there is no governing body who can "fix things" if they are broken.</div><div><br></div><div>If governance is priority, then you should not use a PoW-based blockchain, but a controlled ("permissioned") blockchain or a non-blockchain technology (yes, there still are).</div><div><br></div><div>-Marcel</div><div><br></div><div>[1] With the exception of a reasonable majority of the software developers agreeing on a change, or disagreeing to create a fork.</div><div><br></div><div>On Tue, 2018-10-02 at 09:32 +0100, Christian de Larrinaga wrote:</div><blockquote type="cite" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex; border-left:2px #729fcf solid;padding-left:1ex"><pre>This note from Sia is an interesting first hand snapshot of the sort of</pre><pre>challenges being faced by those responsible for blockchain governance in</pre><pre>the "real world".</pre><pre><br></pre><pre>David Vorick I've found to be a thoughtful exponent of blockchain usage.</pre><pre>The Sia project is one of a small portfolio of interesting and well</pre><pre>considered decentralised and distributed file storage services I have</pre><pre>been assessing / lurking for several years.</pre><pre><br></pre><pre><a href="https://blog.sia.tech/sia-proof-of-work-reset-24b5ec439625">https://blog.sia.tech/sia-proof-of-work-reset-24b5ec439625</a></pre><pre><br></pre><pre>It's a good example of how underlying technology changes are forcing</pre><pre>direct interventions to keep a blockchain governed within desired</pre><pre>parameters and how contentious and political such interventions are.</pre><pre><br></pre><pre><br></pre><pre>Christian</pre><pre><br></pre><pre>Christian de Larrinaga wrote:</pre><pre><blockquote type="cite" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex; border-left:2px #729fcf solid;padding-left:1ex"></blockquote></pre><pre>Johan I agree.</pre><pre><br></pre><pre>Even Satoshi's bitcoin white paper has a flavour of the economists'</pre><pre>standard let out clause when describing their latest theory "all things</pre><pre>being equal ... then .." about the ability of the math to enforce trust</pre><pre>in bitcoin.</pre><pre><br></pre><pre>The problem for bitcoinists is similar to economists. Technology and its</pre><pre>distribution and governance that the math rests on never remains equal.</pre><pre>At least bitcoin as a protocol for inserting data into a database is inert.</pre><pre><br></pre><pre>Other blockchains such as Ethereum introduced programability (so called</pre><pre>turing complete languages) whose main characteristic is to escalate the</pre><pre>probability of technical uncertainties at multiple layers in the</pre><pre>protocols in influencing what gets inserted. Governance for such</pre><pre>environments is very tricky particularly where the protocol environment</pre><pre>makes the assumption that it is mathematically flawless when it comes to</pre><pre>its self governance. Show me a forkless self governing blockchain</pre><pre>anybody. Even those that have raised $50m or more in speculative funding</pre><pre>have suffered massive consequences from systemic flaws leaving their</pre><pre>operators facing existential questions such as whether to intervene to</pre><pre>cancel transactions deemed fraudulent but in so doing admit that the</pre><pre>self governance of the protocol by the protocol is not dependable.</pre><pre><br></pre><pre>Traceability is hugely important and not just for food. It depends on</pre><pre>very complex webs of trust, laws and enforcement and even cultural and</pre><pre>educational capacity.</pre><pre><br></pre><pre>The consequences of getting this wrong are serious.</pre><pre><br></pre><pre>Sympathy and shared outrage with the family of poor Natasha</pre><pre>Ednan-Laperouse, 15,died on a flight to Nice after buying a sandwich at</pre><pre>Pret a Manger outlet at Heathrow Airport in 2016. The bread itself</pre><pre>contained sesame seeds which were not labelled. In this instance the</pre><pre>coroner found that Pret a Manager depended on an exception to labelling</pre><pre>intended for small outlets making their own food on the premises</pre><pre>allowing them to state ingredients orally rather than on packaging.</pre><pre><br></pre><pre>report at <a href="https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45679320">https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45679320</a></pre><pre><br></pre><pre>This is an warning that data that is vital for life which is reliable</pre><pre>and comprehensible end to end has to traverse many interests and domains</pre><pre>with differing needs and priorities.</pre><pre><br></pre><pre><br></pre><pre>Christian</pre><pre><br></pre><pre><br></pre><pre><br></pre><pre>Johan Jörgensen wrote:</pre><pre><blockquote type="cite" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex; border-left:2px #729fcf solid;padding-left:1ex"></blockquote></pre><pre>Trust is always needed before we can secure through technology. Bio</pre><pre>data plus identifier is probably where we’ll go. Trust plus an open</pre><pre>and general identifier system plus blockchain is probably a good</pre><pre>starting point. Blockchain on its own - as you point out John - is not</pre><pre>enough.</pre><pre><br></pre><pre><br></pre><pre>lör 29 sep. 2018 kl. 01:12 skrev Niran Beharry <<a href="mailto:nbeharrytt@gmail.com">nbeharrytt@gmail.com</a></pre><pre><mailto:<a href="mailto:nbeharrytt@gmail.com">nbeharrytt@gmail.com</a>>>:</pre><pre><br></pre><pre> There is a local system being deployed to do plant to bar (this is</pre><pre> for tracking cocoa pods to final product)</pre><pre> Niran</pre><pre><br></pre><pre> On Fri, Sep 28, 2018, 11:40 John Levine <<a href="mailto:isocmember@johnlevine.com">isocmember@johnlevine.com</a></pre><pre> <mailto:<a href="mailto:isocmember@johnlevine.com">isocmember@johnlevine.com</a>>> wrote:</pre><pre><br></pre><pre> In article</pre><pre> <<a href="mailto:CAN7+85fyCw17jZX07Jn8Pi6DyU2Ai_u2sig1yEXKGqQcztxPVQ@mail.gmail.com">CAN7+85fyCw17jZX07Jn8Pi6DyU2Ai_u2sig1yEXKGqQcztxPVQ@mail.gmail.com</a></pre><pre> <mailto:<a href="mailto:CAN7%2B85fyCw17jZX07Jn8Pi6DyU2Ai_u2sig1yEXKGqQcztxPVQ@mail.gmail.com">CAN7%2B85fyCw17jZX07Jn8Pi6DyU2Ai_u2sig1yEXKGqQcztxPVQ@mail.gmail.com</a>>></pre><pre> you write:</pre><pre> >-=-=-=-=-=-</pre><pre> >-=-=-=-=-=-</pre><pre> ></pre><pre> ><a href="http://theinstitute.ieee.org/resources/standards/how-blockchain-technology-could-track-and-trace-food-from-farm-to-fork">http://theinstitute.ieee.org/resources/standards/how-blockchain-technology-could-track-and-trace-food-from-farm-to-fork</a></pre><pre> ></pre><pre> >This is very interesting since its US law to trace food that is</pre><pre> >contaminated ie. E Coli etc back to the actual farm</pre><pre><br></pre><pre> Tracing food is a dandy idea but this makes the usual blockchain</pre><pre> enthusiast error of assuming that if it's on the blockchain it</pre><pre> must be</pre><pre> true. Tagging the food and accurately identifying what each</pre><pre> tag is</pre><pre> attached to is the hard part, not sticking the tag IDs in a</pre><pre> database.</pre><pre><br></pre><pre> All the tags in the world won't help if a sleazy packer can just</pre><pre> put a tag for a clean field on produce from a dirty field.</pre><pre><br></pre><pre> R's,</pre><pre> JOhn</pre><pre> _______________________________________________</pre><pre> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically</pre><pre> subscribed</pre><pre> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the</pre><pre> Internet Society</pre><pre> Chapter Portal (AMS): <a href="https://portal.isoc.org">https://portal.isoc.org</a></pre><pre><br></pre><pre> _______________________________________________</pre><pre> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically</pre><pre> subscribed</pre><pre> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet</pre><pre> Society</pre><pre> Chapter Portal (AMS): <a href="https://portal.isoc.org">https://portal.isoc.org</a></pre><pre><br></pre><pre>-- </pre><pre>_______________</pre><pre><a href="mailto:johan.jorgensen@gmail.com">johan.jorgensen@gmail.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:johan.jorgensen@gmail.com">johan.jorgensen@gmail.com</a>></pre><pre>+46 735 200 633</pre><pre>_______________________________________________</pre><pre>As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed</pre><pre>to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society</pre><pre>Chapter Portal (AMS): <a href="https://portal.isoc.org">https://portal.isoc.org</a></pre><pre></pre><pre><br></pre><pre></pre><pre><br></pre><pre><br></pre></blockquote></body></html>