<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Dear Borka,<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">it seems that you need more information about the circumstances here. And I am not sure if I understand your idea of ‘people voice’. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">best<br class=""><div class=""><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">El 26 sept 2017, a las 10:20, Borka Jerman Blazic <<a href="mailto:borka@e5.ijs.si" class="">borka@e5.ijs.si</a>> escribió:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
  
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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">I think that in the world were Human
      rights have the highest value  as is claimed for EU (and Spain is<br class="">
      an EU MS) the only cases when internet  site/content  blocking is<br class="">
      tolerated is the hate speech that includes racism, terrorism,
      criminal matters, offence, insult to, human and arms smuggling,  
      or  similar content. <br class="">
      <br class="">
      I believe that nothing similar was found in the Catalonian sites
      that were blocked.  <br class="">
      Catalonia is a part of Spain and the population there can decide
      about their own referendum, so <br class="">
      it is difficult this to be considered as "illegal". It is people
      voice. <br class="">
      <br class="">
      Regards,<br class="">
      <br class="">
      Borka<br class="">
      <br class="">
      <br class="">
      <br class="">
      Brandt Dainow je 25.9.2017 ob 18:27 napisal:<br class="">
    </div>
    <blockquote cite="mid:CANDg=1aKHFej6s4ndtBhagHM9XTpYpP2P05DsR8Lfg6LuuFTkQ@mail.gmail.com" type="cite" class="">
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        <div class="">I think it is important to nuance this issue.  The court
          order was not really about blocking the internet.  It was part
          of the government's attempts to prevent publication, in print
          or online, about the referendum.  Other people have been
          arrested, such as printers and people who were going to
          distribute ballot papers.  So the government is not so much
          blocking the internet as blocking a certain type of
          information in all its forms.  Not blocking it on the internet
          would have been, in this sense, inconsistent - effectively
          saying "no" to hard copy, but "yes" to online versions.  Also,
          this court order only applied to the .cat domain, not to other
          internet sources.<br class="">
          <br class="">
        </div>
        I am not defending the government's postion here, but I don't
        think we can see this as a simple case of blocking the internet,
        and I think ISOC should be extremely cautious about getting
        involved.  The spanish government's position is that the
        referendum is illegal and they have a duty to prevent it. 
        Objecting to blocking internet access without objecting to the
        other government activity is like saying the normal rules about
        what is illegal or not shouldn't be applied to the internet. <br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="gmail_extra"><br class="">
        <div class="gmail_quote">On 25 September 2017 at 14:23,
          Christian de Larrinaga <span dir="ltr" class=""><<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:cdel@firsthand.net" target="_blank" class="">cdel@firsthand.net</a>></span> wrote:<br class="">
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote">To some extent it is
            irrelevant that the seizures, raids and attempted<br class="">
            blocks are targeting a zone called .cat. The principles that
            underpin<br class="">
            ISOC's statement I expect would apply for any tld registry
            and<br class="">
            underlying infrastructures that was so treated.<br class="">
            <br class="">
            The issue is serious.  But I'm not sure how far this
            particular incident<br class="">
            can continue to travel in the wrong direction.<br class="">
            <br class="">
            To what extent is there a risk of jurisdictional pollution
            where spanish<br class="">
            authorities may issue european arrest warrants on technical
            managers of<br class="">
            parts of Internet infrastructure (such managers are
            identified already<br class="">
            by law enforcement and security interests in UK for
            instance)?<br class="">
            <br class="">
            It seems rather hard to defend yourself to prove to
            arresting<br class="">
            authorities such warrants from another jurisdiction are not
            warranted or<br class="">
            politically motivated.<br class="">
            <br class="">
            <br class="">
            C<br class="">
            <br class="">
            <br class="">
            vinton cerf wrote:<br class="">
            > they applied to ICANN for a TLD for catalan language
            and culture.<br class="">
            > ICANN asked the governments of spain and andorra
            whether they had any<br class="">
            > objections and both responded that they did not object.<br class="">
            ><br class="">
            > v<br class="">
            ><br class="">
            ><br class="">
            > On Mon, Sep 25, 2017 at 4:19 AM, Oleksandr Pastukhov<br class="">
            > <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:opastukhov@sec.research.um.edu.mt" class="">opastukhov@sec.research.um.<wbr class="">edu.mt</a><br class="">
            > <mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:opastukhov@sec.research.um.edu.mt" class="">opastukhov@sec.<wbr class="">research.um.edu.mt</a>>>
            wrote:<br class="">
            ><br class="">
            >     Hello all,<br class="">
            ><br class="">
            >     Could someone please enlighten me on how they
            managed to get their<br class="">
            >     own TLD in the first place?<br class="">
            ><br class="">
            >     Thank you,<br class="">
            ><br class="">
            >     Alex<br class="">
            ><br class="">
            ><br class="">
            >     On 24-Sep-17 11:29 AM, Borka Jerman Blazic wrote:<br class="">
            >><br class="">
            >>     Dan, thanks for the information. I  propose all
            ISOC chapters to<br class="">
            >>     express  a support to<br class="">
            >>     Ctalanonian chapter in their fight in
            preventing political<br class="">
            >>     intervention in providing<br class="">
            >>     basic Internet services like TLD blocking. TLD
            "CAT" is<br class="">
            >>     recognized and available<br class="">
            >>     for many years and blocking the  services and
            websites with that<br class="">
            >>     domain is not acceptable at all,<br class="">
            >>     especially not in EU where human rights where
            access to Internet<br class="">
            >>     is recognizes as part of<br class="">
            >>     them by UN,  is respected as the highest value
            of the European<br class="">
            >>     society.<br class="">
            >><br class="">
            >>     With regards,<br class="">
            >><br class="">
            >>     Borka<br class="">
            >><br class="">
            >>     ISOC SI<br class="">
            >><br class="">
            >>     Christian de Larrinaga je 22.9.2017 ob 18:44
            napisal:<br class="">
            >>>     It's a good statement.<br class="">
            >>><br class="">
            >>>     Worth also mentioning and keeping in mind
            that Pep Masoliver the<br class="">
            >>>     technical manager for the registry operator
            of .cat was arrested<br class="">
            >>>     during<br class="">
            >>>     the raid by the Guardia Civile. This means
            the event has more<br class="">
            >>>     serious<br class="">
            >>>     implications for the technical community
            than if this was a<br class="">
            >>>     comparatively simple case of attempted or
            actual content<br class="">
            >>>     blocking by the<br class="">
            >>>     Spanish authorities of some or all catalan
            websites.<br class="">
            >>><br class="">
            >>><br class="">
            >>>     Christian<br class="">
            >>><br class="">
            >>>     Dan York wrote:<br class="">
            >>>>     Chapter delegates,<br class="">
            >>>><br class="">
            >>>>     FYI, yesterday we published a statement
            expressing our concern<br class="">
            >>>>     about<br class="">
            >>>>     measures taken in Spain to block access
            to certain websites and,<br class="">
            >>>>     perhaps more concerning, to require a
            top-level domain (TLD)<br class="">
            >>>>     operator<br class="">
            >>>>     to engage in content monitoring and
            blocking.<br class="">
            >>>><br class="">
            >>>>     This is a tense time politically in
            Spain with an independence<br class="">
            >>>>     referendum having been called for
            October 1 in the Catalonia<br class="">
            >>>>     region<br class="">
            >>>>     which the central Spanish government
            views as illegal. We do<br class="">
            >>>>     not want<br class="">
            >>>>     to get involved in the politics of the
            situation, but are<br class="">
            >>>>     concerned by<br class="">
            >>>>     the manner in which the Internet is
            being restricted. As we have<br class="">
            >>>>     repeatedly stated, we do not see
            Internet blocking / shutdowns as<br class="">
            >>>>     effective measures and believe they
            cause far more collateral<br class="">
            >>>>     damage<br class="">
            >>>>     to the economy and society.<br class="">
            >>>><br class="">
            >>>>     Please do note that in developing this
            statement Frédéric Donck<br class="">
            >>>>     and<br class="">
            >>>>     his European Bureau team did interact
            directly with ISOC Catalonia<br class="">
            >>>>     Chapter leaders to understand the
            situation there.<br class="">
            >>>><br class="">
            >>>>     Please do read and share our statement:<br class="">
            >>>><br class="">
            >>>>     <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://www.internetsociety.org/news/statements/2017/internet-society-statement-internet-blocking-measures-catalonia-spain/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://www.internetsociety.<wbr class="">org/news/statements/2017/<wbr class="">internet-society-statement-<wbr class="">internet-blocking-measures-<wbr class="">catalonia-spain/</a><br class="">
            >>>>     <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://www.internetsociety.org/news/statements/2017/internet-society-statement-internet-blocking-measures-catalonia-spain/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://www.internetsociety.<wbr class="">org/news/statements/2017/<wbr class="">internet-society-statement-<wbr class="">internet-blocking-measures-<wbr class="">catalonia-spain/</a>><br class="">
            >>>><br class="">
            >>>><br class="">
            >>>>     <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://www.internetsociety.org/es/news/declarationes/2017/declaracion-de-internet-society-sobre-medidas-de-bloqueo-de-internet-en-cataluna-espana/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://www.internetsociety.<wbr class="">org/es/news/declarationes/<wbr class="">2017/declaracion-de-internet-<wbr class="">society-sobre-medidas-de-<wbr class="">bloqueo-de-internet-en-<wbr class="">cataluna-espana/</a><br class="">
            >>>>     <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://www.internetsociety.org/es/news/declarationes/2017/declaracion-de-internet-society-sobre-medidas-de-bloqueo-de-internet-en-cataluna-espana/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://www.internetsociety.<wbr class="">org/es/news/declarationes/<wbr class="">2017/declaracion-de-internet-<wbr class="">society-sobre-medidas-de-<wbr class="">bloqueo-de-internet-en-<wbr class="">cataluna-espana/</a>><br class="">
            >>>><br class="">
            >>>><br class="">
            >>>>     Shared on social at:<br class="">
            >>>><br class="">
            >>>>     <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://twitter.com/internetsociety/status/910995196405518336" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://twitter.com/<wbr class="">internetsociety/status/<wbr class="">910995196405518336</a><br class="">
            >>>>     <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://twitter.com/internetsociety/status/910995196405518336" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://twitter.com/<wbr class="">internetsociety/status/<wbr class="">910995196405518336</a>><br class="">
            >>>>     <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://www.facebook.com/InternetSociety/posts/10154627959548239" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://www.facebook.com/<wbr class="">InternetSociety/posts/<wbr class="">10154627959548239</a>
            <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://www.facebook.com/InternetSociety/posts/10154627959548239" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://www.facebook.com/<wbr class="">InternetSociety/posts/<wbr class="">10154627959548239</a>><br class="">
            >>>><br class="">
            >>>><br class="">
            >>>>     Regards,<br class="">
            >>>>     Dan<br class="">
            >>>><br class="">
            >>>><br class="">
            >>>>     --<br class="">
            >>>>     Dan York<br class="">
            >>>>     Senior Manager, Content & Web
            Strategy, Internet Society<br class="">
            >>>>     <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:york@isoc.org" class="">york@isoc.org</a> <mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:york@isoc.org" class="">york@isoc.org</a>>
            <mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:york@isoc.org" class="">york@isoc.org</a>><br class="">
            >>>>     <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%2B1-802-735-1624" value="+18027351624" class="">+1-802-735-1624</a>
            <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="tel:%28802%29%20735-1624"><tel:%28802%29%20735-1624></a><br class="">
            >>>>     Jabber: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:york@jabber.isoc.org" class="">york@jabber.isoc.org</a>
            <mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:york@jabber.isoc.org" class="">york@jabber.isoc.org</a>><br class="">
            >>>>     <mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:york@jabber.isoc.org" class="">york@jabber.isoc.org</a>><br class="">
            >>>>       Skype: danyork   <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://twitter.com/danyork" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">http://twitter.com/danyork</a><br class="">
            >>>><br class="">
            >>>>     <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.internetsociety.org/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">http://www.internetsociety.<wbr class="">org/</a>
            <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.internetsociety.org/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">http://www.internetsociety.<wbr class="">org/</a>><br class="">
            >>>><br class="">
            >>>>     ______________________________<wbr class="">_________________<br class="">
            >>>>     As an Internet Society Chapter Officer
            you are automatically<br class="">
            >>>>     subscribed<br class="">
            >>>>     to this list, which is regularly
            synchronized with the Internet<br class="">
            >>>>     Society<br class="">
            >>>>     Chapter Portal (AMS): <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://portal.isoc.org/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://portal.isoc.org</a><br class="">
            >><br class="">
            >><br class="">
            >><br class="">
            >><br class="">
            >>     ______________________________<wbr class="">_________________<br class="">
            >>     As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are
            automatically subscribed<br class="">
            >>     to this list, which is regularly synchronized
            with the Internet Society<br class="">
            >>     Chapter Portal (AMS): <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://portal.isoc.org/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://portal.isoc.org</a><br class="">
            ><br class="">
            ><br class="">
            >     ______________________________<wbr class="">_________________<br class="">
            >     As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are
            automatically<br class="">
            >     subscribed<br class="">
            >     to this list, which is regularly synchronized with
            the Internet<br class="">
            >     Society<br class="">
            >     Chapter Portal (AMS): <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://portal.isoc.org/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://portal.isoc.org</a><br class="">
            ><br class="">
            ><br class="">
            > ______________________________<wbr class="">_________________<br class="">
            > As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are
            automatically subscribed<br class="">
            > to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the
            Internet Society<br class="">
            > Chapter Portal (AMS): <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://portal.isoc.org/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://portal.isoc.org</a><br class="">
            <br class="">
            --<br class="">
            Christian de Larrinaga  FBCS, CITP,<br class="">
            -------------------------<br class="">
            @ FirstHand<br class="">
            -------------------------<br class="">
            <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%2B44%207989%20386778" value="+447989386778" class="">+44 7989 386778</a><br class="">
            <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:cdel@firsthand.net" class="">cdel@firsthand.net</a><br class="">
            -------------------------<br class="">
            <br class="">
            ______________________________<wbr class="">_________________<br class="">
            As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically
            subscribed<br class="">
            to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the
            Internet Society<br class="">
            Chapter Portal (AMS): <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://portal.isoc.org/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://portal.isoc.org</a></blockquote>
        </div>
        <br class="">
        <br class="">
        <br class="">
        -- <br class="">
        <div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:brandt.dainow@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">brandt.dainow@gmail.com</a></div>
      </div>
      <br class="">
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <br class="">
      <pre wrap="" class="">_______________________________________________
As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
Chapter Portal (AMS): <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://portal.isoc.org/">https://portal.isoc.org</a></pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br class=""><p class=""><br class="">
    </p>
    <div class="moz-signature">-- <br class="">
      Prof.dr.Borka Jerman-Blažič
      Head, Laboratory for Open systems and Networks
      Jožef Stefan Institute and
      Faculty of Economics, Ljubljana University
      Slovenia
      tel. +386 1 477 3408
      tel. +386 1 477 3756
      mob. +386 41 678 410</div>
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