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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">+1 with Stefano  and the others. <br>
      <br>
      Regards,<br>
      <br>
      Borka<br>
      Slovenia ISOC<br>
      <br>
      Alex CORENTHIN je 15.8.2017 ob 18:58 napisal:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CAMWrbN_h2XLgiVjYPuHr6YSs_ddD=hCiKbOus47zocjG42fRpQ@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <div dir="auto">+1 with stefano</div>
      <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
        <div class="gmail_quote">Le 15 août 2017 15:33, "Stefano Trumpy"
          <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:stefano@trumpy.eu">stefano@trumpy.eu</a>>
          a écrit :<br type="attribution">
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
            .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
            <div style="word-wrap:break-word">
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Following several
                  comments in the list, regarding the proposed Charter
                  of August 1st for the
                  signature from the Internet Society chapters, I
                  present my general comments
                  before the Italian chapter, by end of August, sends
                  our proposed amendments,
                  elaborated by our Council, to the initial version of
                  the Charter.</span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"> Chapters cannot
                be considered as subsidiaries of the Internet Society
                having headquarters in
                Virginia – US; they should represent Internet Society
                principles (I like more
                the term "Internet orthodoxy") in the territories they
                represent. </p>
              <p class="MsoNormal">In todays global
                society we observe that local governments tend to
                intervene more on policies
                regarding the Internet like: hate speech, fake news,
                populisms, privacy,
                antiterrorism and other aspects that impact on societal
                attitudes and influence
                on public voting in the countries. </p>
              <p class="MsoNormal">It is not by chance
                that, in the last two years or so, in the Internet
                community we started to
                launch messages regarding Internet fragmentation
                elements. The governments, in
                many cases, interpret Internet policy as the one that
                fits better with local
                equilibriums and their foreign policies. As a
                consequence, the chapters should
                represent the opinions coming from what I called
                Internet orthodoxy and will
                use arguments to interact with the local government
                that, in the end will
                act as decision maker. For governments including a
                multi-stakeholders approach
                before deciding on Internet issues, the task for the
                chapters is easier, but
                this happens only in a small fraction of
                territories/countries; last news
                concerning CGI Brazil are worrying and, in Italy, the
                expected process for a
                multi-stakeholder model is still undecided. </p>
              <p class="MsoNormal">With the approach I
                propose, the Internet Society will have the chance to
                evaluate, with the help
                of the chapters, how much recommended global principles
                will have the chance to
                be adopted globally and which variations should be
                elaborated. </p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">In substance the
                  Internet
                  Society should adopt an approach with the chapters
                  more oriented to a bottom up
                  philosophy rather than a top down approach; this
                  should be articulated with
                  appropriate language in order to render the Internet
                  Society a global
                  recognized organization.</span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">The initial ideals
                  valid in early nineties, going back to the Larry
                  Landweber approach, where to
                  bring the Internet everywhere, including countries
                  considered "bad
                  guys" and this was easier because governments either
                  ignored the existence
                  of the Internet or simply didn’t care. </span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span>Final
                notes: several
                comments on the recommended Charter are referring to a
                role of the charters as lobbyists
                with local governments;  I hate this expression and I
                agree that the
                chapters should make their best effort in order to
                defend Internet orthodoxy as
                defined inside the Internet Society. </p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span>The
                language of the
                proposed Charter, in my opinion, looks to be not suited
                for many chapters that
                rely mainly on best effort achievements assured by
                voluntary work.  Also
                it could be defined in a clear way where Internet
                Society may deny the use
                Internet Society logo. </p>
              <div>Stefano</div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
              <div>
                <div
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wrap:break-word">
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style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wrap:break-word">
                    <div>
                      <div><b><font color="#3867ff"><br
                              class="m_-3827101356387239187Apple-interchange-newline">
                            ------------------------------<wbr>------------------------</font></b></div>
                      <div style="font-size:12px"><b><font
                            color="#3867ff">Ing. Stefano Trumpy</font></b></div>
                      <div style="font-size:12px"><b><font
                            color="#3867ff">Presidente Internet Society
                            Italy</font></b></div>
                      <div style="font-size:12px"><b><font
                            color="#3867ff"><br>
                          </font></b></div>
                      <div style="font-size:12px">Via del Poggio 27,
                        Livorno, Italia</div>
                      <div style="font-size:12px">phone: + 39 0586
                        579212</div>
                      <div style="font-size:12px">mobile: +39 3488218618</div>
                      <div style="font-size:12px">e-mail: <a
                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:stefano@trumpy.eu"
                          target="_blank">stefano@trumpy.eu</a></div>
                      <div style="font-size:12px">skype: stetru</div>
                    </div>
                    <div style="font-size:12px"><br>
                    </div>
                  </div>
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                  <br
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                </div>
              </div>
              <br>
              <div>
                <blockquote type="cite">
                  <div>On 02/ago/2017, at 16:09, Brandt Dainow <<a
                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="mailto:brandt.dainow@gmail.com"
                      target="_blank">brandt.dainow@gmail.com</a>>
                    wrote:</div>
                  <br
                    class="m_-3827101356387239187Apple-interchange-newline">
                  <div>I would like to see the Irish chapter work in the
                    same way, and it was my understanding that this is
                    how ISOC chapters were meant to be - to develop
                    activities responding to local needs and delivered
                    in accord with local cultures, following the broad
                    principles and aims of ISOC, but with considerable
                    discretion about how and what.  This clause makes
                    lobbying a condition of being an ISOC chapter.  The
                    document is not clear on what will happen if an ISOC
                    chapter does not lobby for central branch aims. 
                    Will the chapter be closed?  Have all funding
                    terminated?  Or will nothing happen?  If nothing
                    will happen, the clause shouldn't be there. 
                    Personally, I think it is counter-productive.  It
                    gives people an opportunity to accuse a local
                     chapter of being controlled by a US organisation. 
                    It obliges chapters to do something, whether that
                    suits their circumstances or not.  It adds nothing
                    to local chapter abilities, and doesn't really help
                    ISOC central.  Right now, trying to get the Irish
                    chapter started, lobbying would require time, effort
                    and expertise we don't have. <br>
                    <br>
                    ISOC pre-approve every financial allocation.  Every
                    year we submit plans for what we will do.  If ISOC
                    want to see a chapter lobbying, or do anything
                    different, they can withhold funding.  The clause
                    should be withdrawn.  <br>
                    <br>
                    I think this document mixes two things.  Part of it
                    is to ensure a chapter is well-run - elections,
                    constitutions, bank accounts, terms of office. 
                    These are all reasonable requirements to ensure any
                    organisation is well run, and hold true in any part
                    of the world.  <br>
                    <br>
                    The other aim is to control what chapters do.  This
                    needs to be much more carefully worded, or simply
                    eliminated.  I'm not sure any detail about chapter
                    activity is required, and may be
                    counter-productive.  The more detail in the
                    document, the more chance the details won't work in
                    certain countries.  I think it sufficient to merely
                    require a chapter's constitution support the aims of
                    the Internet Society, then leave it to each chapter
                    to work out how.  When I drafted the Irish
                    constitution, I simply took the central website aims
                    into the constitution, while also ensuring maximum
                    freedom for the chapter.  I also ensured the central
                    office could review the constitution and recommend
                    changes before it was finalised.  This should be
                    enough for ISOC.<br>
                    <br>
                    I took the aims from the website and added them to
                    the Irish chapter constitution as follows:<br>
                    ------------------------<br>
                    2.<span class="m_-3827101356387239187Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap">        </span>The
                    main object for which the Company is established is
                    to develop and operate an Irish Chapter of the
                    Internet Society (hereafter referred to as “ISOC”)
                    and to implement the policies and pursue the
                    objectives of ISOC within the Republic of Ireland.<br>
                    3.<span class="m_-3827101356387239187Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap">        </span>The
                    following objects set out hereafter are exclusively
                    subsidiary and ancillary to the main object set out
                    above and these objects are to be used only for the
                    attainment of that main object and any income
                    generated therefrom is to be applied for the main
                    object only.<br>
                    a.<span class="m_-3827101356387239187Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap">        </span>Facilitate
                    and promote global, regional, and local policy
                    environments that enable the continuing evolution of
                    an open Internet.<br>
                    b.<span class="m_-3827101356387239187Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap">        </span>Increase
                    the global relevance and recognition of
                    collaborative, bottom-up, technical, consensus-based
                    open standards development in order to protect
                    permissionless innovation for the availability of
                    the open Internet for current and future users; and
                    increase development and use of security and
                    resiliency technologies and best practices, shape
                    the evolution of online identity infrastructures,
                    and improve choice and consent in the handling of
                    user data.<br>
                    c.<span class="m_-3827101356387239187Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap">        </span>Provide
                    equal development opportunities for all people by
                    promoting the relevance, deployment, and adoption of
                    the open Internet.<br>
                    d.<span class="m_-3827101356387239187Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap">        </span>Increase
                    the visibility and influence of ISOC as the
                    recognized, trusted source on Internet issues<br>
                    e.<span class="m_-3827101356387239187Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap">        </span>To
                    improve and develop the ISOC organization. <br>
                    f.<span class="m_-3827101356387239187Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap">        </span>
                    Create an environment that allows ISOC to use the
                    Internet to gather real data and experiences, and
                    delivers messages and tools to our audiences.<br>
                    g.<span class="m_-3827101356387239187Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap">        </span>Mobilize
                    and energize staff, emerging leaders, past and
                    present ISOC Members, and other identified ISOC
                    stakeholders to leverage and expand ISOC outreach on
                    an inclusive local, regional, and global scale to
                    advance our mission.<br>
                    h.<span class="m_-3827101356387239187Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap">        </span>Nurture
                    a culture that mirrors the Internet attributes we
                    wish to emulate—a team-oriented culture that values
                    openness/inclusivity, global and cultural diversity,
                    honesty, trust and collaboration. To be focused,
                    forward thinking, flexible and dynamic within an
                    environment where decision-making is transparent and
                    accountability is maintained.<br>
                    <br>
                    <br>
                    <br>
                    Regards,<br>
                    Brandt Dainow<br>
                    <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="mailto:brandt.dainow@gmail.com"
                      target="_blank">brandt.dainow@gmail.com</a><br>
                    <br>
                    <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Brandt_Dainow"
                      target="_blank">https://www.researchgate.net/<wbr>profile/Brandt_Dainow</a><br>
                    <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="http://www.imediaconnection.com/profiles/brandt.dainow"
                      target="_blank">http://www.imediaconnection.<wbr>com/profiles/brandt.dainow</a><br>
                    <br>
                    <br>
                    -----Original Message-----<br>
                    From: Sivasubramanian M [mailto:<a
                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="mailto:isolatedn@gmail.com" target="_blank">isolatedn@gmail.com</a>]
                    <br>
                    Sent: 02 August 2017 13:58<br>
                    To: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="mailto:brandt.dainow@gmail.com"
                      target="_blank">brandt.dainow@gmail.com</a><br>
                    Cc: Alan Levin; Joyce Dogniez; ISOC Chapter
                    Delegates; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="mailto:chapter-support@isoc.org"
                      target="_blank">chapter-support@isoc.org</a><br>
                    Subject: Re: [Chapter-delegates] Revised Chapter
                    Agreement<br>
                    <br>
                    A specific comment inline:<br>
                    <br>
                    On Wed, Aug 2, 2017 at 6:08 PM, Brandt Dainow <<a
                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="mailto:brandt.dainow@gmail.com"
                      target="_blank">brandt.dainow@gmail.com</a>>
                    wrote:<br>
                    <blockquote type="cite">There is nothing in this
                      document which offers more support to chapters. 
                      The only thing this document does is increase
                      control over chapters by central office.  It
                      obliges chapters to engage in additional
                      activities as a condition of being funded, despite
                      the fact all funding must be applied for in
                      advance via detailed proposals and may be
                      refused.  It offers nothing positive to the
                      chapters.  It is merely an effort to restrict the
                      independence of chapters and reduce their ability
                      to adapt to local circumstance.  I am particularly
                      concerned it demands on-going lobbying activity as
                      a condition of being a chapter.<br>
                    </blockquote>
                    <br>
                    <blockquote type="cite">I am fairly sure this will
                      make some chapters illegal in some countries where
                      lobbying by foreign-funded organisations is
                      illegal.<br>
                    </blockquote>
                    <br>
                    Very pertinent observation. In India, it would get
                    Chapters in a dangerous situation. First of all,
                    speaking for the India Chennai Chapter alone, I
                    would NOT agree at all to any expectations of
                    lobbying for any position by ISOC. What we do at
                    Chennai is to broadly understand the Internet
                    Society's mission, which we agree with fully, and
                    work ON OUR OWN, in our own ways, independently on
                    position and projects that would further the
                    evolution of the Internet along the lines. Drop the
                    idea of expecting Chapters to lobby for positions
                    that invariably emerge mostly from Staff
                    deliberations.<br>
                    <br>
                    --- Sivasubramanain M<br>
                    <br>
                    <blockquote type="cite"><br>
                      To be balanced, there should be some reciprocal
                      reaching out by central office - such as better
                      communication and listening to chapters.  For
                      example, this document should have been put to the
                      chapters as a discussion document for feedback
                      months before it was finalised.  The fact it was
                      not indicates ISOC is anti-democratic, and run by
                      a small central group who, in my view, have failed
                      to recognise ISOC is not the same type of
                      organisation as it was 10-20 years ago.<br>
                      <br>
                      Regards,<br>
                      Brandt Dainow<br>
                      <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="mailto:brandt.dainow@gmail.com"
                        target="_blank">brandt.dainow@gmail.com</a><br>
                      <br>
                      <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Brandt_Dainow"
                        target="_blank">https://www.researchgate.net/<wbr>profile/Brandt_Dainow</a><br>
                      <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="http://www.imediaconnection.com/profiles/brandt.dainow"
                        target="_blank">http://www.imediaconnection.<wbr>com/profiles/brandt.dainow</a><br>
                      <br>
                      -----Original Message-----<br>
                      From: Chapter-delegates <br>
                      [mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="mailto:chapter-delegates-bounces@elists.isoc.org"
                        target="_blank">chapter-delegates-<wbr>bounces@elists.isoc.org</a>]
                      On Behalf Of Alan <br>
                      Levin<br>
                      Sent: 02 August 2017 08:56<br>
                      To: Joyce Dogniez; ISOC Chapter Delegates; <a
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="mailto:chapter-support@isoc.org"
                        target="_blank">chapter-support@isoc.org</a><br>
                      Subject: Re: [Chapter-delegates] Revised Chapter
                      Agreement<br>
                      <br>
                      Hi all,<br>
                      <br>
                      <blockquote type="cite">On 31 Jul 2017, at 12:06
                        PM, Joyce Dogniez <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:dogniez@isoc.org" target="_blank">dogniez@isoc.org</a>>
                        wrote:<br>
                        With the increased financial support to our
                        Chapters we also have an increased
                        responsibility and accountability towards our
                        community. It is the responsibility of Internet
                        Society s leadership to manage its funds in a
                        responsible and transparent manner.<br>
                        This implies that the legal relationship between
                        Internet Society and its Chapters needs to be
                        well defined.<br>
                      </blockquote>
                      <br>
                      Thanks for this. I think it s very good!  Well
                      done Joyce and others <br>
                      :)<br>
                      <br>
                      <blockquote type="cite">  Purpose of Chapter.<br>
                        The purpose of the Chapter shall be to support
                        the Internet Society s vision, mission, and
                        operating principles in the Territory.<br>
                      </blockquote>
                      <br>
                      I agree that this is one purpose of the Internet
                      Society of South <br>
                      Africa, and the purpose of this agreement :)<br>
                      <br>
                      One of our primary purposes as an association of
                      Internet Society members, is to participate in the
                      ICT policy making processes in our country.
                      Another purpose is to assist our colleagues in
                      other countries with their policy making in that
                      country.<br>
                      <br>
                      We have asked for over a decade for global support
                      on national policy making activities. I have
                      suggested that a policy analyst who can compare
                      various trending policies to be able to provide us
                      with important international data about other
                      policies in other countries of similar nature. For
                      example we have a Cybersecurity Bill in our
                      Parliamentary process and it will be invaluable to
                      see an analysis of it s components compared to
                      other countries that have already been through
                      that process, ideally not a US centric or  North
                       view, something neutral would be ideal.<br>
                      <br>
                      So regards this section:<br>
                      <blockquote type="cite">Internet Society Support.<br>
                        The Internet Society will provide the following
                        support to the chapters in accordance with ISOC
                        s annual business plan:<br>
                      </blockquote>
                      <br>
                      I suggest again that we need support from ISOC
                      Global to provide a global policy analyst to
                      assist with support on National Policy Making
                      activities. This should not be a local activity,
                      it s not regional, it's a global policy analyst
                       activity need that we have had for decades.
                      Please help !<br>
                      <br>
                      Sincerely<br>
                      <br>
                      <br>
                      Alan Levin<br>
                      ISOC-ZA<br>
                      ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
                      As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are
                      automatically <br>
                      subscribed to this list, which is regularly
                      synchronized with the <br>
                      Internet Society Chapter Portal (AMS): <a
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="https://portal.isoc.org" target="_blank">https://portal.isoc.org</a><br>
                      <br>
                      ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
                      As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are
                      automatically <br>
                      subscribed to this list, which is regularly
                      synchronized with the <br>
                      Internet Society Chapter Portal (AMS): <a
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="https://portal.isoc.org" target="_blank">https://portal.isoc.org</a><br>
                    </blockquote>
                    <br>
                    <br>
                    <br>
                    --<br>
                    Sivasubramanian M<br>
                    <br>
                    ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
                    As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are
                    automatically subscribed<br>
                    to this list, which is regularly synchronized with
                    the Internet Society<br>
                    Chapter Portal (AMS): <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="https://portal.isoc.org" target="_blank">https://portal.isoc.org</a></div>
                </blockquote>
              </div>
              <br>
            </div>
            <br>
            ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
            As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically
            subscribed<br>
            to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the
            Internet Society<br>
            Chapter Portal (AMS): <a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="https://portal.isoc.org" rel="noreferrer"
              target="_blank">https://portal.isoc.org</a><br>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <br>
      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
Chapter Portal (AMS): <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://portal.isoc.org">https://portal.isoc.org</a></pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
      Prof.dr.Borka Jerman-Blažič
      Head, Laboratory for Open systems and Networks
      Jožef Stefan Institute and
      Faculty of Economics, Ljubljana University
      Slovenia
      tel. +386 1 477 3408
      tel. +386 1 477 3756
      mob. +386 41 678 410</div>
  </body>
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