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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Louis Houle
President
ISOC Quebec
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Louis.Houle@isoc.quebec">Louis.Houle@isoc.quebec</a>
</pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Le 2016-08-22 à 14:12, Eduardo Diaz a
écrit :<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAO3PLbD6VDqNw76yc5HbN54_twJXV9fCspjY=gdJtAtPNPoTGg@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr"><font size="4">John:</font>
<div><font size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4">I still believe that all chapters should be
welcome to comment on anything. As is in the recommendation
- <b><i>"...Staff can choose the most appropriate method
to </i></b></font><i style="font-weight:bold"><font
size="4">consult the membership..."</font> </i><span
style="font-size:large">it is assumed that staff will do
this the most effective way. </span><span
style="font-size:large"> </span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:large"><br>
</span></div>
<div><font size="4">With respect to removing the "ownership":
my point there is that we are just issuing comments not
mandates. It is well understood that the ChAC is just an
advisory committee to the Board of Trustees and as such it
does not have the authority or responsibility of issuing any
mandates to the staff. </font></div>
<div><font size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4">Thanks.</font></div>
<div><font size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4">-ed</font><br>
<div><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 1:27 PM John More
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:morej1@mac.com">morej1@mac.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">The understood
structure of the ChAC is that it is to serve as a way
for Chapters to provide a more effective input in
support of the Trustees and the staff and as a means
for the latter to involve Chapters more fully.
Providing input on papers is a reasonable function as
long as it does not end up bureaucratizing further
ISOC. In that light involving all the Chapters in a
country or region specific policy or initiative would
seem counterproductive. Informing everyone on the
other hand would be a good idea (as well as seeing the
membership bettie informed). Richard’s proposed
wording captures that.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>On the other hand, I too would remove the
“ownership” wording and replace it with something
more like that that staff under delegated authority
from the Trustees has responsibility for issuing the
official version."</div>
</div>
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">
<div><br>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>John More</div>
</div>
</div>
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">
<div>
<div><br>
<div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>On Aug 22, 2016, at 1:01 PM, Eduardo Diaz
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com"
target="_blank">eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br>
<div>
<div dir="ltr"><font size="4">I do not see
how eliminating the statement will imply
that we are recommending to change any
ISOC structure or give members greater
responsibility. </font>
<div><font size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4">The way I read it, the
recommendation is geared to give
chapters the chance to comment on
papers put out by ISOC before they are
published. As far as I know comments
are just comments. They can be taken
into account or not. I do not think
they are mandates. </font>
<div><font size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4">Please let me know
if I am wrong. </font></div>
<div><font size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4">-ed<br>
</font><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">On Mon, Aug 22, 2016
at 12:49 PM Richard Hill <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:rhill@hill-a.ch"
target="_blank">rhill@hill-a.ch</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple"
lang="EN-US">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Dear
Eduoardo,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">OK
for the first change, I
understand the logic.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><br>
Regarding the second
change, as I stated in a
previous message, it seems
to me that in the current
structure of ISOC it is
the Board who has the
authority to issue policy
statements, and the Board
delegates that authority
to the staff. I fully
understand that some
people would like to give
greater responsibility to
the members: that topic
will be discussed in the
Chapters Advisory Council.
But, for this
recommendation, I think
that we should stick to
ISOC’s current structure.
Otherwise it will get
stuck into a big
discussion about the
structure of ISOC.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><br>
Best,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Richard</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<div
style="border:none;border-left:solid
blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in
0in 4.0pt">
<div>
<div
style="border:none;border-top:solid
#b5c4df
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in
0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
Eduardo Diaz
[mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com" target="_blank">eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday,
August 22, 2016
18:45<br>
<b>To:</b> Richard
Hill</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div link="blue" vlink="purple"
lang="EN-US">
<div>
<div
style="border:none;border-left:solid
blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in
0in 4.0pt">
<div>
<div
style="border:none;border-top:solid
#b5c4df
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re:
[Chapter-delegates]
ChAC Decision
Needed: Proposal for
greater Chapter
participation in
developing position
& policy briefs</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div link="blue" vlink="purple"
lang="EN-US">
<div>
<div
style="border:none;border-left:solid
blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in
0in 4.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:13.5pt">I believe in including everyone. It promotes
inclusiveness
and transparency.</span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:13.5pt">In reality and what most probably happens is
that those affected
will be the ones
that will provide
the
feedback. However,
the rest of the
chapters will have
the opportunity to
be an active/passive
participant in the
discussion.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:13.5pt">Also, I will eliminate the following: <b><i>"...with
the
understanding
that staff
retains full
ownership</i></b></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span
style="font-size:13.5pt">for the final version"</span></i></b><span
style="font-size:13.5pt">. </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:13.5pt">It has been stated in the recommendation that
that chapters
are providing just
comments. </span><span
style="font-size:18.0pt">In my very own personal opinion, I feel uneasy
about this
statement. It feels
like a mandate from
staff.</span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:13.5pt">-ed</span></p>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On
Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at
12:22 PM Richard Hill
<<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:rhill@hill-a.ch" target="_blank">rhill@hill-a.ch</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid
#cccccc
1.0pt;padding:0in 0in
0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Dear
Eduardo,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Perhaps
we are talking
at cross
purposes. The
second
recommendation
refers to
policies that
apply globally.
The first one is
intended to
refer to
policies that
apply only to a
specific
country/region.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">So
the idea was to
consult only the
chapters in the
concerned
country/region.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">However,
if you think
that all
chapters should
be consulted
even for policy
that apply only
to a specific
country/region,
that is fine
with me, and I
would be happy
to accept your
original
proposed edit.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Thanks
and best,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Richard</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<div
style="border:none;border-left:solid
blue
1.5pt;padding:0in
0in 0in 4.0pt">
<div>
<div
style="border:none;border-top:solid
#b5c4df
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt
0in 0in 0in">
<p
class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
Eduardo Diaz
[mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com" target="_blank">eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b>
Monday, August
22, 2016 18:19<br>
<b>To:</b>
Richard Hill;
Chapter
Delegates</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div
style="border:none;border-left:solid
blue
1.5pt;padding:0in
0in 0in 4.0pt">
<div>
<div
style="border:none;border-top:solid
#b5c4df
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt
0in 0in 0in">
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""><br>
<b>Subject:</b>
Re:
[Chapter-delegates]
ChAC Decision
Needed:
Proposal for
greater
Chapter
participation
in developing
position &
policy briefs</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div
style="border:none;border-left:solid
blue
1.5pt;padding:0in
0in 0in 4.0pt">
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:13.5pt">Richard:</span></p>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:13.5pt">ALL</span></b><span style="font-size:13.5pt">
chapters
should be
given the
opportunity in
getting
involved in
the process
regardless of
which
country/region
the policy statement is for. In the specific case, the chapters affected
should be the
most
vociferous.
So, I do not
agree with the
proposed
change. </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:13.5pt">Others in the list may want to comment on this
as well. </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:13.5pt">Kind regards,</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:13.5pt">-ed</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
</div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">On
Mon, Aug 22,
2016 at 11:43
AM Richard
Hill <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:rhill@hill-a.ch" target="_blank">rhill@hill-a.ch</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid
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1.0pt;padding:0in
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<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Dear
Eduardo,</span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><br>
Thank you for
spotting this.</span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">The
recommendation
in question
was intended
to apply to
the situation
where ISOC
staff contacts
national
policy
makers. I
would propose
to rephrase it
as follows:</span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">“When
ISOC staff
contacts
national
policy makers,
they should
review with
the relevant
chapters
policy
positions and
alliances
before</span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">they
are made, and
inform the
chapters of
meetings with
national
policy</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">makers,
unless time
constraints do
not permit it.
We have active
mailing</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">lists
that can make
it quick and
easy.”</span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Best,</span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Richard</span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<div
style="border:none;border-left:solid
blue
1.5pt;padding:0in
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<div>
<div
style="border:none;border-top:solid
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<p
class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
Chapter-delegates [mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:chapter-delegates-bounces@elists.isoc.org"
target="_blank">chapter-delegates-bounces@elists.isoc.org</a>] <b>On
Behalf Of </b>Eduardo
Diaz<br>
<b>Sent:</b>
Monday, August
22, 2016 15:53<br>
<b>To:</b>
Chapter
Delegates</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div
style="border:none;border-left:solid
blue
1.5pt;padding:0in
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<div>
<div
style="border:none;border-top:solid
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1.0pt;padding:3.0pt
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<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""><br>
<b>Subject:</b>
Re:
[Chapter-delegates]
ChAC Decision
Needed:
Proposal for
greater
Chapter
participation
in developing
position &
policy briefs</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div
style="border:none;border-left:solid
blue
1.5pt;padding:0in
0in 0in 4.0pt">
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">@All:</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div
style="border:none;border-left:solid
blue
1.5pt;padding:0in
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<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">I
recommend to
eliminate the
word "
relevant" in
the first
paragraph in
the
reccomendation
to read as
follows: <b><i>"Review
with the
chapters,
policy..." . </i></b></p>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">The
word
"relevant"
implies that
some chapters
will be
excluded from
the
discussion. </p>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">The
dictionary
definition for
this word is:
<b>"<i>closely
connected or
appropriate to
the matter at
hand."</i></b></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">-ed</p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">On
Fri, Aug 19,
2016 at 3:12
PM avri doria
<<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:avri@acm.org" target="_blank">avri@acm.org</a>> wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid
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<p
class="MsoNormal">Dear
ChAC
delegates,<br>
<br>
The ChAC
Steering
Committee has
reviewed "A
proposal for
greater<br>
involvement of
Chapters in
the position
and policy
brief
development<br>
process"
(below &
attached) and
is submitting
it to the
Chapter
Council<br>
for approval.<br>
<br>
Decisions by
the ChAC are
governed by
the Rules
&
Procedure
paragraph 6<br>
<br>
>
Substantive
decisions, in
particular
regarding
advice and<br>
>
recommendations,
shall be made
by the AC.
Decisions may
be made by<br>
>
electronic
means (e.g.
E-Mail,
electronic
voting
systems, etc.)
or<br>
> during
remote
(audio/video
conferencing)
or physical
meetings.<br>
> Decisions
shall normally
be taken by
consensus
(meaning lack
of formal<br>
>
opposition).
If consensus
cannot be
achieved, then
the Chair of
the AC<br>
> Steering
Committee
shall organize
a vote. In
case of
voting,
decisions<br>
> shall be
taken by a
majority vote
of the
delegates to
the AC. The<br>
> quorum
shall be
nineteen (19)
delegates. In
case of tie,
the matter<br>
> will be
resubmitted
for discussion
and a new
vote. Votes
will be<br>
> secret.
The tally of
votes (for,
against,
abstain, did
not vote) will<br>
> be
published.
Abstentions
will be
counted
towards
determining
the quorum.<br>
<br>
At this point
I would like
to open
discussion on
this proposal
for the<br>
next week -
until 8/27
1200 UTC. At
that point I
will initiate
a<br>
consensus call
on the
document,
including any
changes that
may be<br>
warranted as
part of the
discussion.
This consensus
call will also
be<br>
scheduled for
1 week.
Should the
document not
meet with
consensus, I<br>
will then
request that
we continue
discussion on
it and will
bring it to<br>
a vote.<br>
<br>
Thank you<br>
<br>
Avri Doria<br>
<br>
(for the ChAC
SC)<br>
<br>
<br>
-----<br>
<br>
*A proposal
for greater
involvement of
Chapters in
the position
and<br>
policy brief
development
process*<br>
<br>
*Background*<br>
<br>
In the past,
there have
been occasions
when ISOC
staff met with
national<br>
policy makers
without
involving the
national
chapter in any
way. Since<br>
national
chapters often
have good
relations with
national
officials, it<br>
would be
preferable if
the chapters
are also
involved in
meetings with<br>
national
officials. We
propose a
recommendation
below to that
effect.<br>
<br>
At present,
there does not
seem to be a
consistent
practice
within ISOC<br>
regarding the
role of the
membership in
the policy
development<br>
process and
the
preparation of
background and
position
papers that
ISOC<br>
puts forward.
Specifically,
some policy
papers are
submitted to
the<br>
membership for
comment,
specifically
the policy
briefs, while
others<br>
papers, such
as position
papers, are
not. In one
case, the
membership<br>
was not
informed of a
specific
submission. It
appears to us
that<br>
systematic
consultation
with the
membership can
only improve
the quality<br>
of a policy,
background
paper, or
position
paper. The
intent is not
to<br>
change ISOC's
current
decision-making
process for
such papers:
staff<br>
would remain
fully
responsible
for the final
version of the
paper. The<br>
intent is to
allow staff to
benefit
systematically
from the views
of the<br>
membership,
and to decide
whether or how
to incorporate
comments from<br>
the
membership. We
propose a
recommendation
below to that
effect.<br>
<br>
<br>
*Recommendations*<br>
<br>
Review with
the relevant
chapters,
policy
positions and
alliances
before<br>
they are made,
and inform
them of
meetings with
national
policy<br>
makers, unless
time
constraints do
not permit it.
We have active
mailing<br>
lists that can
make it quick
and easy.<br>
<br>
In general,
policy,
background and
position
papers,
including
policy<br>
briefs should
be submitted
to the
membership for
comment prior
to<br>
publication,
with the
understanding
that staff
retains full
ownership<br>
for the final
version. Staff
can choose the
most
appropriate
method to<br>
consult the
membership,
for example by
asking for
volunteers to
review<br>
drafts, by
posting a
draft for
comment to a
mailing list,
by convening a<br>
virtual
meeting to
discuss the
issues, etc.<br>
<br>
Further, when
papers are
published
and/or
submitted to
some entity<br>
outside ISOC,
the membership
should be
informed and a
link to the
paper<br>
should be sent
to the
appropriate
mailing list
and to the
Chapter<br>
Delegate's
mailing list
just prior to
the
publication or
submission.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
---<br>
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