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<p>Dear ISOCers,</p>
<p>I too am a supporter of more active participation in
standardization by everyone who can contribute. However, it would
be helpful for people who contribute to standardization processes
to have a greater understanding of the evolutionary nature of
standardization and standards as required for coordination. To
this end there is a biannual conference Standards and Innovation
in Information Technology (SIIT) that will be held in Beijing,
China in the Fall of 2017. There are also many papers addressing
isology (the science of standards and standardization) at
isology.com</p>
<p>Ken Krechmer</p>
<p>Treasurer, SFBayISOC<br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 8/5/2016 6:48 AM, Carlos Vera wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:20160805134848.5890131.52125.1286@gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri,
'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);
text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">Dear
all: several of our isoc members are also members of the IEEE,
iETF, etc. So we are working on this groups. Do you mean a
corporative presence?</div>
<div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri,
'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);
text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><br>
</div>
<div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri,
'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);
text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">Carlos
Vera</div>
<div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri,
'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);
text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">Isoc
Ecuador</div>
<div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri,
'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);
text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><br
style="display:initial">
</div>
<div style="font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro',
sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); text-align:
initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">Enviado desde mi smartphone BlackBerry 10.</div>
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<div><b>De: </b>Dave Burstein</div>
<div><b>Enviado: </b>jueves, 4 de agosto de 2016 12:02</div>
<div><b>Para: </b>ISOC Chapter Delegates</div>
<div><b>Asunto: </b>[Chapter-delegates] Jason's
comments on ISOC becoming active in standards</div>
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<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Jason & folk</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">I had made the
suggestion ISOC and our members take an active role where
many decisions are made that are crucial to things like the
cost of access and the opportunities for competition. </div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Jason is on target
that you need to be informed on technical issues to be
effective here. I was trying to make a similar point when I
said "experienced" members. Sorry if I wasn't clear.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Fortunately, ISOC has
many people with the skills and experience. We have people
who are building networks around the world. We can also
reach out when we don't have the right skills. For example,
on the dispute going on about telcos taking over much of the
unlicensed spectrum from Wi-Fi, I have some friends in the
Stanford Electrical Engineering department who care about
this issue. </div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">----------------------</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Where we disagree is
whether ISOC should play a role in key standards groups
beyond the IETF. I believe that we should, because most of
the standards that affect the cost of access are not made in
the IETF. 3GPP (a totally corporate group) is the center of
wireless standards, the way most people are connecting. IEEE
does Wi-Fi, important for community1 mesh and so much more.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">To be effective, we
have to be there.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Jason writes<br>
</div>
<div><span class="im" style="font-size:16px"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:16px">[JL] Why would you want
to increase engagement with the ITU when it does not
develop open Internet standards and is quite the opposite
of an open, multi-stakeholder model that the Internet
Society has so long advocated for, and given our long
efforts to keep open Internet standards with the IETF and
other similar groups?</span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">1) Because that's
where the action is, for example on IoT.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">2) By being there,
we can bring the "models we advocate" to the fore. At ITU,
the Secretary-General encouraged Kathy Brown to do just
that. It was his way to work around the fear of some
countries that "multi-stakeholder" was dominated by giant
multinationals. (Vide: the role of Cisco and Ericsson at
IETF, something many of us have noted.) We can discuss
whether he was being political or had a genuine belief,
but the offer was very clear. (In person, at the ITU
Plenipot, where I was during an open meeting.)</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">3) Because the
IETF, for whatever reason, doesn't claim the role Jason
(and I) might like here. Until it does, power is
elsewhere/</div>
<span class="im" style="font-size:16px"><br>
> The most important group to attend if we want lower
access costs is 3GPP, which makes the 3G/4G/5G rules, the
most common way people are connecting today. It has no
public interest presence and is only corporations.
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;display:inline">...</div>
<br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-size:16px">[JL] That group produces
technical standards. It is not clear how non-technical
participants making non-technical (economic/social policy)
arguments would make any progress. </span><br>
<br>
</div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Me: Agreed that we
should seek members with technical competence. We have
some and this effort would attract more.</div>
<br>
</div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Jason: <span
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">It seems to me the
only way to lower costs is via external market
pressures, in creating competitive alternatives that
force prices down. For example, current/future WiFi
standards that use unlicensed spectrum. </span></div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><span
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><br>
</span></div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><span
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">Me: That's exactly
the kind of issue we need to influence at 3GPP. In
particular, an LTE chipmaker made a proposal at 3GPP to
use some unlicensed spectrum for LTE. At 3GPP, the telcos
and their suppliers changed that into LAA, which limited
the protocol to companies with LTE licensed spectrum. (4
main ones in the U.S.)</span></div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><span
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">We can, and should,
be encouraging competition.</span></div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><span
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><br>
</span></div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><span
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">Me: </span><span
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"> We also should be
strong at the Wi-Fi groups, including IEEE 802.11, which
is an open group. I believe that Wi-Fi will be the right
access for </span>village<span
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">. India, </span>Thailand<span
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"> and others are
building backbone fiber to tens of thousands of towns.
Wi-Fi is the natural local connection. The telcos want to
take as much as half the Wi-Fi spectrum for their LAA
service. I care because I want a public interest presence.</span></div>
<div><br>
[JL] This sees better than 5G. But again, these are purely
technical bodies. So why would they act on non-technical,
economic/policy proposals? </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_default"><font face="verdana, sans-serif">Me:
Because key decisions are not made on a purely technical
basis by neutral experts. O</font>TI has just noted "it
is alarming to hear that compromises on the test plan
within this industry group could leave 50% of Wi-Fi
connections at risk of disruption from LTE-U." Jason
happens to be a technical person who has made
recommendations that may not help his employer. I respect
that immensely. Too many at the committees wind up
supporting the economic needs of their employers. I can
provide many examples. The process is often very
political, based on economics. Companies exist to make
money, and most do not pay people to go to standards and
make decisions not in their interests.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">---------------</div>
<br>
</div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;display:inline">Jason:
</div>
Perhaps instead the chapters could figure out how to
creatively apply the use of WiFi in local areas, in the
village as you say. Such as grants for equipment, training
in how to set it up and maintain it, local expertise to go
around installing it, suggestions on services that local
residents could establish to make the network economically
self-sustaining, etc.<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Me: The ISOC-NY
Chapter is actively supporting NY Wireless doing just
that. Good work, although we need to listen to the people
actually doing the work around the world, not assume
someone from D.C. knows more. In particular, the people at
the U.S. State Department are clueless here.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">---------------------</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">The Internet should
be for everyone,</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Dave</div>
<br>
</div>
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