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12pt;font-family: Helvetica Neue;"><span style="font-family: Helvetica
Neue;">Eric, <br><br>I agree if you are talking about some of the
abstracted Internet Governance agenda items that the policy list covers.
But influence for privacy, surveillance, cyber security, data
protection, broadband policy, child protection, filtering, mobile
access, and now the Internet of Things is far less certain. <br><br><br><br>Christian<br><br></span><span>Eric
Burger wrote:</span><br><blockquote style="word-wrap: break-word;
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"
cite="mid:6CBAACAD-F3C9-409F-9481-FF112A7CA950@standardstrack.com"
type="cite"><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=UTF-8">Sorry Dave - I think you have it backwards.<div class=""><br
class=""></div><div class="">What you are describing is ISOC’s success.
We have so much influence that the US Government, like many governments
around the globe, takes on ISOC’s positions, not the other way around.
Look at the USG’s initial positions on Internet governance compared to
where they are today and you not only see the gradual adoption of ISOC’s
positions, in many cases you can even find ISOC text in the new
positions.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">A lot of
that has to do with individual chapters working with their local
governments, just as ISOC-DC, ISOC-NY, ISOC-SF, etc. do with the USG, to
educate them on what the Internet is about.</div><div class=""><br
class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br
class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Feb 25,
2016, at 4:33 AM, Dave Burstein <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:daveb@dslprime.com" class="">daveb@dslprime.com</a>>
wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div
dir="ltr" class=""><div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">We have to be very careful here.
ISOC itself is very, very close to the U.S. government, especially at
the ITU. For example, the ISOC run IGF USA in 2014 had 5 of 6 keynote
speakers from the U.S. Government. I hope that changes this year. </div><div
class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br
class=""></div><div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">In the last five years, I can
think of only one significant issue (encryption) where ISOC took a
strong position different than the U.S. Gov. (That isn't because the
government orders ISOC or pays off the leaders. How Beltway Blindness
and the DC Consensus develops is a much more subtle question.)</div><div
class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br
class=""></div><div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">I can think of a dozen
ITU/governance issues ISOC and the U.S. held similar positions. Some
make sense, others I disagree with. I think we should be addressing
taxation of multinationals, cartel pricing on transit/backhaul, level of
royalties, and of course net neutrality. </div><div
class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br
class=""></div><div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">If others can think of where ISOC
strongly differed from U.S. gov, I'd welcome examples. Please - I'd
love to be proven wrong here.</div><div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br class=""></div><div
class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Most of us
think the U.S. government isn't as authoritarian as the Chinese one,
myself included. So we don't think of being so close to the U.S.
government (and corporations) as an issue. </div><div
class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br
class=""></div><div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">But I think we should deal with
that before we criticize others. First is to put our own house in order.</div><div
class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br
class=""></div><div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Dave</div><div
class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br
class=""></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br class=""><div
class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 2:11 AM, <span dir="ltr"
class=""><<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:borka@e5.ijs.si"
target="_blank" class="">borka@e5.ijs.si</a>></span> wrote:<br
class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">+1<br class="">
<br class="">
Thank you Klaus, I already expressed the same opinion.<br class="">
A modus vivandi should be found with Vhinese Internet users<br class="">
without violating the main mission and rules of Internet Society.<br
class="">
<br class="">
Regards,<br class="">
<br class="">
Borka<div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
On Wed, 24 Feb 2016, Klaus Birkenbihl wrote:<br class="">
<br class="">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Sorry Nadira - I'm afraid you got me wrong. What I'm saying is we should
not ignore them and work with them because they are important. But as
long as one of their kernel tasks is to supervise censorship and
blocking - i.e. crippling the net- they should NOT be part of ISOC. This
would jeopardize our credibility in fighting for an open and equally
accessible Internet.<br class="">
<br class="">
Best, Klaus<br class="">
<br class="">
Nadira Alaraj schrieb am 24.02.2016 um 12:58:<br class="">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Oh Klaus, you took the words from me,<br class="">
because I was going to write,<br class="">
for the Internet society it would be much cheaper and more inclusive if
Internet Society of China to be an Internet Society chapter.
Particularity now ISC is in the process of being in the At-large
structure.<br class="">
Historically talking and most of the chapters created in the developing
countries did emerge either through government or private sector
affiliated bodies.<br class="">
The Internet Society could distance itself from the political scene of
its host country and open up globally.<br class="">
<br class="">
Best wishes,<br class="">
Nadira Alaraj<br class="">
Vice chairperson<br class="">
Palestine Chapter<br class="">
<br class="">
On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 1:27 PM, Klaus Birkenbihl <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:Klaus.Birkenbihl@isoc.de"
target="_blank" class="">Klaus.Birkenbihl@isoc.de</a> <mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:Klaus.Birkenbihl@isoc.de"
target="_blank" class="">Klaus.Birkenbihl@isoc.de</a>>> wrote:<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
JOHN MORE schrieb am 23.02.2016 um 15:00:<br class="">
> +1. And this is not intended to attack Internet Society China,
which to my knowledge has not attempted to mislead or misuse its name.
It is about protecting not only ISOC, but all the Chapters and
individuals who share the Internet Society's vision and name.<br
class="">
<br class="">
Well (I stated this before in a mail that presumably got lost): I
remember <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://isoc.de/"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">ISOC.DE</a> <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://isoc.de/" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank" class="">http://ISOC.DE</a>> and a some other
chapters met 2003 with a delegation from Internet Society China in 2003.
They were on a lobbying tour seeking support to become recognized as an
ISOC chapter. So there is (at least was) an interest to be seen as an
ISOC chapter.<br class="">
<br class="">
Things I learned during the few month I spent in China working for
W3C:<br class="">
<br class="">
1 ISC runs CNNIC.<br class="">
2 ISC is established as an Internet companies association.<br
class="">
3 ISC is a government watchdog supervising service providers and
Internet companies wrt to conformance to blocking/censorship and other
regulations (“self-disciplinary regulations”).<br class="">
4 ISC was very successful in growing and accelerating Internet
throughout China.<br class="">
<br class="">
Though ISC is beneficial for Internet in China in many ways - item 3
IMHO disqualifies them from becoming in whatever way affiliated with
ISOC.<br class="">
<br class="">
This said: ISC is one of the most important players in the Internet,
supervising provision of Internet access for nearly 10% of the global
population. We have to talk with them and look for opportunities to
cooperate.<br class="">
<br class="">
As far as trademark is concerned: the China Trademark Office lists
中国互联网协会 which translates to Internet Society of China (in 3 different
classes, whatever that means). I doubt it would generate any benefit to
raise a trademark issue in this case.<br class="">
<br class="">
Best, Klaus<br class="">
<br class="">
--<br class="">
Klaus Birkenbihl<br class="">
Treasurer and Board member<br class="">
Internet Society German Chapter e.V. (<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://isoc.de/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">ISOC.DE</a>
<<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://isoc.de/" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank" class="">http://ISOC.DE</a>>)<br class="">
c/o ict-Media GmbH<br class="">
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.isoc.de/"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">http://www.isoc.de/</a><br
class="">
<br class="">
_______________________________________________<br class="">
As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically
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to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet
Society<br class="">
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class="">https://portal.isoc.org</a><br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
--<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast.<br
class="">
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.avast.com/" rel="noreferrer"
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<#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2><br class=""></blockquote>
<br class="">
-- <br class="">
Klaus Birkenbihl<br class="">
Treasurer and Board member<br class="">
Internet Society German Chapter e.V. (<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://isoc.de/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">ISOC.DE</a>)<br
class="">
c/o ict-Media GmbH<br class="">
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class="">https://portal.isoc.org</a><br class=""></blockquote></div><br
class=""><br class="" clear="all"><div class=""><br class=""></div>-- <br
class=""><div class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr" class="">Editor,
Fast Net News, Net Policy News and DSL Prime<br class="">Author with
Jennie Bourne DSL (Wiley) and Web Video: Making It Great, Getting It
Noticed (Peachpit)</div></div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br class="">As an
Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed<br
class="">to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet
Society<br class="">Chapter Portal (AMS): <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://portal.isoc.org" class="">https://portal.isoc.org</a></div></blockquote></div><br
class=""></div>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
Chapter Portal (AMS): <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://portal.isoc.org">https://portal.isoc.org</a></pre></blockquote><br><div
class="moz-signature">-- <br>Christian de Larrinaga FBCS, CITP,<br>
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