<div dir="ltr">Janvier,<div><br></div><div>we don't disagree.</div><div><br></div><div>Further, indeed, the chapter vetting process is based on the premise that objectivity in such matters either doesn't exist or is hard to achieve (and may serve no higher purpose for the cost.) Instead we have the vector sum of some subjectivities, which we assume honest and committed (again subject to "trust and verify") - much like in many other human affairs which defer individual decisions to collegiate bodies. </div><div><br></div><div>No objection to renewed vetting. We do have much of it in practice as well, even if not in a formal process.</div><div><br></div><div>Yours,</div><div><br></div><div>Alejandro Pisanty</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 1:38 PM, Janvier Noulaye <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jnoulaye@gmail.com" target="_blank">jnoulaye@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><div>Hi Alejandro, you've quite right in certain points. </div><div>But, there is no guarantee of objectivity at 100% on that.</div><div>For me, the rigorous criteria of selection to entry do not always justify the selection of the right candidate. </div><div>The best assessment must be based on the action and dynamism of the Chapter on the field.</div><div>If the staff can help us look at the statistics, how many chapters exist in the world, how many of them are really active and dynamic? An annual or biennial assessment of Chapters can tell us more and will help to appreciate the true number of the "Good" Chapters.</div><div>In my opinion in summary, ISOC must accredit any local structure that meets certain minimum rules, then impose the achievement of certain results at the end of each year or for every two years, then also plans to remove the accreditation if some outcome are not met after 3 or 5 years. Perhaps ISOC should imagine a classification of chapters (active, less active, etc.), ie to enforce the chapters into a competition that keeps them active ?</div><div>So, I want to say welcome to any newcomer Chapter, but they should keep working on the field. My major criteria of selection are not at the entrance, but after 1 or 2 years of the field.</div></div><div><br></div><div>Warm regards,</div><div>Janvier Ngnoulaye</div><div>ISOC Cameroon</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2015-03-04 19:06 GMT+01:00 Alejandro Pisanty <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:apisanty@gmail.com" target="_blank">apisanty@gmail.com</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Joyce, all,<div><br></div><div>thanks for resending the ISOC .me (Montenegro) application. </div><div><br></div><div>I am not familiar with the roster of start-up members (as I am indeed OTOH with the Dominican Republic members) so can't judge on that basis.</div><div><br></div><div>Other than that the chapter composition and stated purposes seem to reflect what we at least partially know of the environment in Montenegro; a good combination of academics, technologists and, very importantly, enterprise and start-ups which seems to be a vibrant activity there.</div><div><br></div><div>On the people side of the decision I defer to others with better knowledge. </div><div><br></div><div>I am making this longer statement because the process we follow in ISOC for the recognition of new chapters is exemplary for the At Large environment of ICANN, to which many chapters often apply as At Large Structures (ALS's) promptly after recognition by ISOC. The ISOC process is known to be rigorous and therefore in many cases the RALOs take it as a strong precedent for the recognition of the chapters as ALS's. </div><div><br></div><div>We *have* had to fight hard for the recognition of some but even in those cases, the ISOC process has been taken into account by the opponents or questioners of the recognition as ALS.</div><div><br></div><div>Therefore we need to keep this job up to a high standard, so that its integrity is a gurantee for others. It works in favor of everybody to know that we as chapters are subject to this close scrutiny by our own organization. We go in more strongly into debates and environments in which transparency and accountability are hurled around like flaming arrows.</div><div><br></div><div>This applies equally well to the national environments of which among others Walid here, and Rafael "Lito" Ibarra in the Candidates Forum, have recently expressed concerns. Knowledgeable, global-and-local, honest, networked and accountable is our name.</div><div><br></div><div>Yours,</div><div><br></div><div>Alejandro Pisanty</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div><div>On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 11:42 AM, Joyce Dogniez <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:dogniez@isoc.org" target="_blank">dogniez@isoc.org</a>></span> wrote:<br></div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div>
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<div>Dear Colleagues,</div>
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<div>As I am surprised by the silence around this application from Montenegro I'm resending the message. </div>
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<div>Thanks a lot </div>
<div>Joyce</div>
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<div style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:medium">Joyce Dogniez, CMM</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:medium">Director of Chapters</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:medium">Internet Society</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:medium"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:medium"><a href="mailto:dogniez@isoc.org" target="_blank">dogniez@isoc.org</a></div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:medium">tel: <a href="tel:%2B352%20621%20266%20189" value="+352621266189" target="_blank">+352 621 266 189</a></div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:medium">Skype: joycedogniez</div>
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<div style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt;text-align:left;color:black;BORDER-BOTTOM:medium none;BORDER-LEFT:medium none;PADDING-BOTTOM:0in;PADDING-LEFT:0in;PADDING-RIGHT:0in;BORDER-TOP:#b5c4df 1pt solid;BORDER-RIGHT:medium none;PADDING-TOP:3pt">
<span style="font-weight:bold">From: </span>Joyce Dogniez <<a href="mailto:dogniez@isoc.org" target="_blank">dogniez@isoc.org</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Monday, February 23, 2015 at 9:57 AM<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span>"<a href="mailto:chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org" target="_blank">chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org" target="_blank">chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>Tommi Karttaavi <<a href="mailto:karttaavi@isoc.org" target="_blank">karttaavi@isoc.org</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>[Chapter-delegates] Application for ISOC Montenegro Chapter<br>
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<div style="font-family:Consolas;font-size:medium">Dear colleagues,</div>
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<div style="font-family:Consolas;font-size:medium">The following application for a Chapter in Montenegro has been received.</div>
<div style="font-family:Consolas;font-size:medium">It is being sent to this list for peer comment and review. Please note</div>
<div style="font-family:Consolas;font-size:medium">that the Chapter is not yet formed and has not been officially recognised</div>
<div style="font-family:Consolas;font-size:medium">by the Internet Society.</div>
<div style="font-family:Consolas;font-size:medium"><br>
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<div style="font-family:Consolas;font-size:medium">If there are people on this list that know any of the individuals</div>
<div style="font-family:Consolas;font-size:medium">proposing to establish the Chapter, their feedback is especially welcome.</div>
<div style="font-family:Consolas;font-size:medium"><br>
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<div style="font-family:Consolas;font-size:medium">The period allowed for comments is two weeks and the deadline is March 9,</div>
<div style="font-family:Consolas;font-size:medium">2015.</div>
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<div style="font-family:Consolas;font-size:medium">Please do not hesitate to contact me on or off list.</div>
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<div style="font-family:Consolas;font-size:medium">Best regards,</div>
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<div style="font-family:Consolas;font-size:medium">Tommi Karttaavi</div>
<div style="font-family:Consolas;font-size:medium">Manager, Chapter Development - Europe</div>
<div style="font-family:Consolas;font-size:medium">Internet Society</div><span><font color="#888888">
</font></span></div><span><font color="#888888">
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
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<div>-- </div>
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<div style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:medium">Joyce Dogniez, CMM</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:medium">Director of Chapters</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:medium">Internet Society</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:medium"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:medium"><a href="mailto:dogniez@isoc.org" target="_blank">dogniez@isoc.org</a></div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:medium">tel: <a href="tel:%2B352%20621%20266%20189" value="+352621266189" target="_blank">+352 621 266 189</a></div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:medium">Skype: joycedogniez</div>
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<br></div></div><span>_______________________________________________<br>
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</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class="gmail_signature">- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -<br> Dr. Alejandro Pisanty<br>Facultad de Química UNAM<br>Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico<br>+52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD<br>+525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO SMS +525541444475<br>Blog: <a href="http://pisanty.blogspot.com" target="_blank">http://pisanty.blogspot.com</a><br>LinkedIn: <a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty" target="_blank">http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty</a><br>Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, <a href="http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614" target="_blank">http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614</a><br>Twitter: <a href="http://twitter.com/apisanty" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/apisanty</a><br>---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, <a href="http://www.isoc.org" target="_blank">http://www.isoc.org</a><br>. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .</div>
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