<div dir="ltr">The WHOIS database would need to be a lot more solid, I guess, to make that work. There is also the question of users who are not domain name holders which draws me back to ALAC. I don't have a good answer here except to say that the "election" in the early years of ICANN proved problematic in many respects.<div>
<br></div><div>v</div><div><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Jul 4, 2014 at 10:21 AM, Richard Hill <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:rhill@hill-a.ch" target="_blank">rhill@hill-a.ch</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><u></u>
<div>
<div><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial">Dear
Vint,</font></span></div>
<div><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial"></font></span> </div>
<div><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial">I
agree that it might not be feasible to organize a global election of the ICANN
Board ty the citizens of the world, or by the users of the
Internet.</font></span></div>
<div><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial"></font></span> </div>
<div><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial">That's
why I suggest instead that the ICANN Board be elected by registrants (holders)
of domain names. That is quite feasible using existing technologies and
databases. I realize that some registrants use anonimity services, but it would
be up to them to declare themselves as registrants if they wish to participate
in the election, if not they would simply be absentees.</font></span></div><span>
<div><br><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial">Best,</font></div>
<div></div></span><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial">Richard</font></span></div><div><div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#0000ff 2px solid;PADDING-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-RIGHT:0px" dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><font face="Tahoma">-----Original Message-----<br><b>From:</b> Vint Cerf
[mailto:<a href="mailto:vint@google.com" target="_blank">vint@google.com</a>]<br><b>Sent:</b> vendredi, 4. juillet 2014
13:12<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:rhill@hill-a.ch" target="_blank">rhill@hill-a.ch</a><br><b>Cc:</b> Evan Leibovitch; Chapter
Delegates<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Chapter-delegates] Internet Society
Appointments to theNTIA/IANA Stewardship Transition Coordination
Group<br><br></font></div>
<div dir="ltr">Richard,
<div><br></div>
<div>the idea that there should be a global election for board members of
ICANN by citizens of the world and users of the Internet was then and I think
still is unworkable. Qualifying the electorate and running a verifiable
election (ie, free of fraud) via the Internet is still out of the question. In
places like Estonia where strong authentication is available it appears
possible to achieve such an objective but this isn't feasible today on a
global scale. I think the At-Large mechanism is about the best one can do
along these lines for now.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>vint</div>
<div><br></div></div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Jul 4, 2014 at 1:46 AM, Richard Hill <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:rhill@hill-a.ch" target="_blank">rhill@hill-a.ch</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;PADDING-LEFT:1ex" class="gmail_quote"><u></u>
<div>
<div><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial">Dear Evan,</font></span></div>
<div><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial"></font></span> </div>
<div><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial">I fully agree with you that it
would be better if ICANN were ultimately accountable to all the world's
Internet users (or maybe even to all the world's people, since I believe we
all want all people to use the Internet).</font></span></div>
<div><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial"></font></span> </div>
<div><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial">As you say below, the initial
structure of ICANN did allow for significant influence by users, but this
was later modified to reduce that influence.<br></font></span></div>
<div><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial">If we can come up with a practical
scheme allowing all users to excercise control over ICANN's accountability,
I would be all for it.</font></span></div>
<div><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial"></font></span> </div>
<div><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial">If not, then at least let's
implement accountability by registrants, which is not perfect (for the
reasons you say) but surely better than the current setup which has the
drawbacks that you outline below.</font></span></div>
<div><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial"><br>Best,</font></span></div>
<div><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial">Richard</font></span></div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#0000ff 2px solid;PADDING-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-RIGHT:0px" dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><font face="Tahoma">-----Original
Message-----<br><b>From:</b> <a href="mailto:evanleibovitch@gmail.com" target="_blank">evanleibovitch@gmail.com</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:evanleibovitch@gmail.com" target="_blank">evanleibovitch@gmail.com</a>]<b>On Behalf Of </b>Evan
Leibovitch<br><b>Sent:</b> jeudi, 3. juillet 2014 22:39<br><b>To:</b>
Richard Hill<br><b>Cc:</b> Eric Burger; Chapter
Delegates<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Chapter-delegates] Internet Society
Appointments to theNTIA/IANA Stewardship Transition Coordination
Group<br><br></font></div></div>
<div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">On 3 July 2014 12:09, Richard Hill <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:rhill@hill-a.ch" target="_blank">rhill@hill-a.ch</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;PADDING-LEFT:1ex" class="gmail_quote"><u></u>
<div style="WORD-WRAP:break-word">
<div><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial">In democracies, the ultimate
authority (parliament) is elected by all those affected, it is not
chosen by a NomCom.</font></span></div></div></blockquote>
<div><br></div>
<div>That's because the ICANN "Nominating Committee" is misnamed.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>What ICANN has is a selection committee. A true *NOMINATING*
Committee would create a ballot of eligible candidates from which an
electorate would choose representatives. It's that last little step --
having an electorate -- that ICANN has consciously dispensed with. It's
why ICANN has worked so hard to evade the traditional structure of
nonprofits (such as our Chapter's) whose Boards are accountable to a
membership.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Once upon a time there were direct elections to ICANN, which were
gamed. The response to gaming was to eliminate elections, rather than
address the gaming issue. Perhaps that over-reaction needs to be
revisited, especially now that e-voting tech has advanced so much
lately.</div>
<div><br></div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;PADDING-LEFT:1ex" class="gmail_quote">My suggestion is that the ultimate oversigh for
ICANN's economic regulatory function should be the end-users, that is
the registrants of domain names (people/organizations that hold domain
name registrations).</blockquote>
<div><br></div>
<div> </div>
<div>End users != registrants.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>This error occurs frequently within ICANN, and is a constant source
of required vigilance.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>End users are the people sitting at screens or on their mobiles, who
access the Internet without any need for a domain name or intention to
possess one. I reject the assertion by many in the domain industry that
everyone needs to own a domain, that each person on earth is just a
potential registrant who hasn't yet been adequately marketed to.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Among the current family of registrants -- owning a substantial chunk
of the total domain name pool -- are name speculators and squatters.
ICANN's tolerance of their presence creates artificial scarcity, raises
the cost of Internet entry to startup businesses, and causes legitimate
site and brand owners to needlessly register defensive names. (They also
dramatically inflate the total number of extant domains, which is now
arguably a source of ICANN's own financial dependence. But that's a
different thread.)</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>In this family are also those who create domain names with intent to
defraud. This is why the Red Cross request for domain name protection came
in for special attention at the ICANN Board recently (supported by the GAC
and ALAC), why the lack of enforced WHOIS accuracy has become a source of
controversy, and why the ALAC continues to challenge the utility of gTLD
"Public Interest Committments" over the protests of the domain
industry.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>So, Richard, I must take issue with your definition. While the
interests of registrants often have much in common with those of end
users, they are most certainly not 100% in sync and occasionally in direct
opposition.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Registrants have their own constituencies within the "Non-Contracted
House" half of ICANN's GNSO, from which they protect their interests.
That's not At-Large, which, like ISOC, exists to assert the perspective of
end-users -- the billions outside ICANN's direct revenue stream who are
nonetheless impacted by its actions.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>- Evan</div>
<div><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>As
an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed<br>to
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Society<br>Chapter Portal (AMS): <a href="https://portal.isoc.org" target="_blank">https://portal.isoc.org</a><br></blockquote></div><br></div></blockquote>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div>