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bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"><div style="font-size:
12pt;font-family: Optima;"><span style="font-family: Optima;">Firstly
from the top.. <br><br>I wonder if the problem is less one of
representation than of purpose? <br><br>If board members served a duty
to the public good than simply to serve the interests of "ICANN the
corporation" whether that would be an important start to build a more
reflexive accountability at ICANN?<br><br>The other issue for ICANN in
the future is whether decisions are made at the board as in a
traditional top down corporation or whether it is able to delegate the
other way and have them made within its constituencies and only if
contentious between such constituencies or GAC etc would they get
referred for board discussion to work out what course of action or
recommendations to make to try to resolve an issue. <br><br>This is
relevant to the NTIA transition because all the discussions so far
surrounding the oversight or accountability of ICANN or a new body
assume the eventual governance model will be top down. That is the
accountability will need to be imposed from on top or from one side or
another. <br><br>Actually a bottom up approach is going to be much more
realistic if the board at the top so to speak is clearly focussed on the
public good and whose role is very largely one of co-ordination,
community building (to get things done in constituency bodies) and deal
brokering when that is required. <br><br>.01c<br><br>on voting by
registrants.. I'm not against it provided it is one per person / entity
but I don't see having a vote as a key incentive to change behaviour for
many bona fide registrants who often have no clue about DNS, ICANN and
rely on a friend to register their name. After a while things move on
and the details go out of date. What is needed is a way to jog these
registrants without knocking them off the Internet. One thought I had
might be to setup a lost and found that shows up on google search so
that when a record goes wrong it gets to the top of the search with
links on how to fix it. <br><br>.01c <br><br><br>Christian<br><br></span><br>Vint
Cerf wrote:<blockquote
cite="mid:CAHxHggdifeiArax2GidLwNMzNRfdsdZ0R10EdmRQ0wwzcq4Qrg@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite"><div dir="ltr">separating businesses from individuals might
still be a problem. Hard to say whether voting would overcome some
preferences for anonymity in the database. <div><br></div><div>v</div><div><br></div></div><div
class="gmail_extra">
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Jul 4, 2014 at 10:52 AM,
Richard Hill <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:rhill@hill-a.ch" target="_blank">rhill@hill-a.ch</a>></span>
wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div>
<div><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial">If
registrants could vote, then they would have an additional incentive to
keep the
WHOIS database up to date. Same as corporate shareholders: if they want
to
vote, they make sure that the company secretary has their current
address.</font></span></div><span>
<div><br><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial">Best,</font></div>
</span><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial">Richard</font></span></div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#0000ff 2px
solid;PADDING-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-RIGHT:0px" dir="ltr"><div
dir="ltr" align="left"><font face="Tahoma"><div class="">-----Original
Message-----<br><b>From:</b> Vint Cerf
[mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:vint@google.com"
target="_blank">vint@google.com</a>]<br></div><div><div class="h5"><b>Sent:</b>
vendredi, 4. juillet 2014
16:48<br><b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:rhill@hill-a.ch" target="_blank">rhill@hill-a.ch</a><br><b>Cc:</b>
Evan Leibovitch; Chapter
Delegates<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Chapter-delegates] Internet Society
Appointments to theNTIA/IANA Stewardship Transition Coordination
Group<br><br></div></div></font></div><div><div class="h5">
<div dir="ltr">The WHOIS database would need to be a lot more solid, I
guess, to
make that work. There is also the question of users who are not domain
name
holders which draws me back to ALAC. I don't have a good answer here
except to say that the "election" in the early years of ICANN proved
problematic in many respects.
<div><br></div>
<div>v</div>
<div><br></div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Jul 4, 2014 at 10:21 AM, Richard Hill
<span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:rhill@hill-a.ch" target="_blank">rhill@hill-a.ch</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;PADDING-LEFT:1ex" class="gmail_quote"><div>
<div><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial">Dear Vint,</font></span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial">I agree that it might
not be
feasible to organize a global election of the ICANN Board ty the
citizens of
the world, or by the users of the Internet.</font></span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial">That's why I suggest
instead that
the ICANN Board be elected by registrants (holders) of domain
names.
That is quite feasible using existing technologies and databases. I
realize
that some registrants use anonimity services, but it would be up to
them to
declare themselves as registrants if they wish to participate in the
election, if not they would simply be absentees.</font></span></div><span>
<div><br><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial">Best,</font></div>
</span><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial">Richard</font></span></div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#0000ff 2px
solid;PADDING-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-RIGHT:0px" dir="ltr"><div
dir="ltr" align="left"><font face="Tahoma">-----Original
Message-----<br><b>From:</b> Vint Cerf [mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:vint@google.com" target="_blank">vint@google.com</a>]<br><b>Sent:</b>
vendredi, 4. juillet
2014 13:12<br><b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:rhill@hill-a.ch" target="_blank">rhill@hill-a.ch</a><br><b>Cc:</b>
Evan Leibovitch; Chapter
Delegates<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Chapter-delegates] Internet
Society
Appointments to theNTIA/IANA Stewardship Transition Coordination
Group<br><br></font></div>
<div dir="ltr">Richard,
<div><br></div>
<div>the idea that there should be a global election for board
members of
ICANN by citizens of the world and users of the Internet was then
and I
think still is unworkable. Qualifying the electorate and running a
verifiable election (ie, free of fraud) via the Internet is still
out of
the question. In places like Estonia where strong authentication
is
available it appears possible to achieve such an objective but
this isn't
feasible today on a global scale. I think the At-Large mechanism
is about
the best one can do along these lines for now.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>vint</div>
<div><br></div></div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Jul 4, 2014 at 1:46 AM, Richard
Hill <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:rhill@hill-a.ch" target="_blank">rhill@hill-a.ch</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;PADDING-LEFT:1ex" class="gmail_quote">
<div>
<div><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial">Dear Evan,</font></span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial">I fully agree with
you that it
would be better if ICANN were ultimately accountable to all the
world's
Internet users (or maybe even to all the world's people, since I
believe
we all want all people to use the Internet).</font></span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial">As you say below,
the initial
structure of ICANN did allow for significant influence by users,
but
this was later modified to reduce that
influence.<br></font></span></div>
<div><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial">If we can come up
with a
practical scheme allowing all users to excercise control over
ICANN's
accountability, I would be all for it.</font></span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial">If not, then at
least let's
implement accountability by registrants, which is not perfect
(for the
reasons you say) but surely better than the current setup which
has the
drawbacks that you outline below.</font></span></div>
<div><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial"><br>Best,</font></span></div>
<div><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial">Richard</font></span></div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#0000ff 2px
solid;PADDING-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-RIGHT:0px" dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><font face="Tahoma">-----Original
Message-----<br><b>From:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:evanleibovitch@gmail.com" target="_blank">evanleibovitch@gmail.com</a>
[mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:evanleibovitch@gmail.com" target="_blank">evanleibovitch@gmail.com</a>]<b>On
Behalf Of </b>Evan
Leibovitch<br><b>Sent:</b> jeudi, 3. juillet 2014 22:39<br><b>To:</b>
Richard Hill<br><b>Cc:</b> Eric Burger; Chapter
Delegates<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Chapter-delegates] Internet
Society
Appointments to theNTIA/IANA Stewardship Transition
Coordination
Group<br><br></font></div></div>
<div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">On 3 July 2014 12:09, Richard Hill <span
dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:rhill@hill-a.ch"
target="_blank">rhill@hill-a.ch</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:rgb(204,204,204) 1px
solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;PADDING-LEFT:1ex" class="gmail_quote">
<div style="WORD-WRAP:break-word">
<div><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial">In
democracies, the
ultimate authority (parliament) is elected by all those
affected, it
is not chosen by a NomCom.</font></span></div></div></blockquote>
<div><br></div>
<div>That's because the ICANN "Nominating Committee" is
misnamed.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>What ICANN has is a selection committee. A true
*NOMINATING*
Committee would create a ballot of eligible candidates from
which an
electorate would choose representatives. It's that last little
step --
having an electorate -- that ICANN has consciously dispensed
with.
It's why ICANN has worked so hard to evade the traditional
structure
of nonprofits (such as our Chapter's) whose Boards are
accountable to
a membership.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Once upon a time there were direct elections to ICANN,
which were
gamed. The response to gaming was to eliminate elections,
rather than
address the gaming issue. Perhaps that over-reaction needs to
be
revisited, especially now that e-voting tech has advanced so
much
lately.</div>
<div><br></div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:rgb(204,204,204) 1px
solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;PADDING-LEFT:1ex" class="gmail_quote">My
suggestion is that the ultimate oversigh for
ICANN's economic regulatory function should be the
end-users, that
is the registrants of domain names (people/organizations
that hold
domain name registrations).</blockquote>
<div><br></div>
<div> </div>
<div>End users != registrants.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>This error occurs frequently within ICANN, and is a
constant
source of required vigilance.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>End users are the people sitting at screens or on their
mobiles,
who access the Internet without any need for a domain name or
intention to possess one. I reject the assertion by many in
the domain
industry that everyone needs to own a domain, that each person
on
earth is just a potential registrant who hasn't yet been
adequately
marketed to.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Among the current family of registrants -- owning a
substantial
chunk of the total domain name pool -- are name speculators
and
squatters. ICANN's tolerance of their presence creates
artificial
scarcity, raises the cost of Internet entry to startup
businesses, and
causes legitimate site and brand owners to needlessly register
defensive names. (They also dramatically inflate the total
number of
extant domains, which is now arguably a source of ICANN's own
financial dependence. But that's a different thread.)</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>In this family are also those who create domain names
with intent
to defraud. This is why the Red Cross request for domain name
protection came in for special attention at the ICANN Board
recently
(supported by the GAC and ALAC), why the lack of enforced
WHOIS
accuracy has become a source of controversy, and why the ALAC
continues to challenge the utility of gTLD "Public Interest
Committments" over the protests of the domain industry.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>So, Richard, I must take issue with your definition.
While the
interests of registrants often have much in common with those
of end
users, they are most certainly not 100% in sync and
occasionally in
direct opposition.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Registrants have their own constituencies within the
"Non-Contracted House" half of ICANN's GNSO, from which they
protect
their interests. That's not At-Large, which, like ISOC, exists
to
assert the perspective of end-users -- the billions outside
ICANN's
direct revenue stream who are nonetheless impacted by its
actions.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>- Evan</div>
<div><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>As
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</div></div></blockquote>
</blockquote></div><br></div>
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</blockquote><br><div class="moz-signature">-- <br>Christian de
Larrinaga <br>
FBCS, CITP, MCMA <br>
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