<div dir="ltr">Richard,<div><br></div><div>we have gone through this exact same discussion several times over the years. It was thought at those many times that you were following ICANN issues closely. </div><div><br></div>
<div>The design constraints have not changed so it is unlikely that a new result will emerge.</div><div><br></div><div>The "poll tax" factor appears when you remember that that you are talking about the representation of all stakeholders. Domain name registrants are a subset among users and their participation is already funnelled through the GNSO, ccNSO, etc. To become a registrant in most cases you have to pay so that makes the "poll tax" analogy which was utterly strongly resisted. The double vote factor counts a lot too. Plus, registrants, as others have already said, are not only individuals. Vint also has correctly underlined the difficulty of defining the electorate, leave alone the identification, authentication and running the election. Evan's description of the history both trivializes and omits a ton of key factors.</div>
<div><br></div><div>If you find a working group within our subset (ISOC chapters) or more broadly I will be happy to discuss when they roll their sleeves and get to work seriously; I'm not saying this absolutely can't be solved but remind you that there was a very strong process to think it through at the time. Otherwise please read the record and start with something new. </div>
<div><br></div><div>Yours,</div><div><br></div><div>Alejandro Pisanty</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Jul 4, 2014 at 9:52 AM, Richard Hill <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:rhill@hill-a.ch" target="_blank">rhill@hill-a.ch</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><u></u>
<div>
<div><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial">If
registrants could vote, then they would have an additional incentive to keep the
WHOIS database up to date. Same as corporate shareholders: if they want to
vote, they make sure that the company secretary has their current
address.</font></span></div><span>
<div><br><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial">Best,</font></div>
<div></div></span><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial">Richard</font></span></div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#0000ff 2px solid;PADDING-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-RIGHT:0px" dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><font face="Tahoma">-----Original Message-----<br><b>From:</b> Vint Cerf
[mailto:<a href="mailto:vint@google.com" target="_blank">vint@google.com</a>]<br><b>Sent:</b> vendredi, 4. juillet 2014
16:48<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:rhill@hill-a.ch" target="_blank">rhill@hill-a.ch</a><br><b>Cc:</b> Evan Leibovitch; Chapter
Delegates<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Chapter-delegates] Internet Society
Appointments to theNTIA/IANA Stewardship Transition Coordination
Group<br><br></font></div>
<div dir="ltr">The WHOIS database would need to be a lot more solid, I guess, to
make that work. There is also the question of users who are not domain name
holders which draws me back to ALAC. I don't have a good answer here
except to say that the "election" in the early years of ICANN proved
problematic in many respects.
<div><br></div>
<div>v</div>
<div><br></div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Jul 4, 2014 at 10:21 AM, Richard Hill <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:rhill@hill-a.ch" target="_blank">rhill@hill-a.ch</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;PADDING-LEFT:1ex" class="gmail_quote"><u></u>
<div>
<div><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial">Dear Vint,</font></span></div>
<div><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial"></font></span> </div>
<div><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial">I agree that it might not be
feasible to organize a global election of the ICANN Board ty the citizens of
the world, or by the users of the Internet.</font></span></div>
<div><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial"></font></span> </div>
<div><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial">That's why I suggest instead that
the ICANN Board be elected by registrants (holders) of domain names.
That is quite feasible using existing technologies and databases. I realize
that some registrants use anonimity services, but it would be up to them to
declare themselves as registrants if they wish to participate in the
election, if not they would simply be absentees.</font></span></div><span>
<div><br><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial">Best,</font></div>
<div></div></span><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial">Richard</font></span></div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#0000ff 2px solid;PADDING-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-RIGHT:0px" dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><font face="Tahoma">-----Original
Message-----<br><b>From:</b> Vint Cerf [mailto:<a href="mailto:vint@google.com" target="_blank">vint@google.com</a>]<br><b>Sent:</b> vendredi, 4. juillet
2014 13:12<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:rhill@hill-a.ch" target="_blank">rhill@hill-a.ch</a><br><b>Cc:</b> Evan Leibovitch; Chapter
Delegates<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Chapter-delegates] Internet Society
Appointments to theNTIA/IANA Stewardship Transition Coordination
Group<br><br></font></div>
<div dir="ltr">Richard,
<div><br></div>
<div>the idea that there should be a global election for board members of
ICANN by citizens of the world and users of the Internet was then and I
think still is unworkable. Qualifying the electorate and running a
verifiable election (ie, free of fraud) via the Internet is still out of
the question. In places like Estonia where strong authentication is
available it appears possible to achieve such an objective but this isn't
feasible today on a global scale. I think the At-Large mechanism is about
the best one can do along these lines for now.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>vint</div>
<div><br></div></div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Jul 4, 2014 at 1:46 AM, Richard Hill <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:rhill@hill-a.ch" target="_blank">rhill@hill-a.ch</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;PADDING-LEFT:1ex" class="gmail_quote"><u></u>
<div>
<div><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial">Dear Evan,</font></span></div>
<div><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial"></font></span> </div>
<div><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial">I fully agree with you that it
would be better if ICANN were ultimately accountable to all the world's
Internet users (or maybe even to all the world's people, since I believe
we all want all people to use the Internet).</font></span></div>
<div><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial"></font></span> </div>
<div><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial">As you say below, the initial
structure of ICANN did allow for significant influence by users, but
this was later modified to reduce that
influence.<br></font></span></div>
<div><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial">If we can come up with a
practical scheme allowing all users to excercise control over ICANN's
accountability, I would be all for it.</font></span></div>
<div><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial"></font></span> </div>
<div><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial">If not, then at least let's
implement accountability by registrants, which is not perfect (for the
reasons you say) but surely better than the current setup which has the
drawbacks that you outline below.</font></span></div>
<div><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial"><br>Best,</font></span></div>
<div><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial">Richard</font></span></div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#0000ff 2px solid;PADDING-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-RIGHT:0px" dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><font face="Tahoma">-----Original
Message-----<br><b>From:</b> <a href="mailto:evanleibovitch@gmail.com" target="_blank">evanleibovitch@gmail.com</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:evanleibovitch@gmail.com" target="_blank">evanleibovitch@gmail.com</a>]<b>On Behalf Of </b>Evan
Leibovitch<br><b>Sent:</b> jeudi, 3. juillet 2014 22:39<br><b>To:</b>
Richard Hill<br><b>Cc:</b> Eric Burger; Chapter
Delegates<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Chapter-delegates] Internet Society
Appointments to theNTIA/IANA Stewardship Transition Coordination
Group<br><br></font></div></div>
<div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">On 3 July 2014 12:09, Richard Hill <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:rhill@hill-a.ch" target="_blank">rhill@hill-a.ch</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;PADDING-LEFT:1ex" class="gmail_quote"><u></u>
<div style="WORD-WRAP:break-word">
<div><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial">In democracies, the
ultimate authority (parliament) is elected by all those affected, it
is not chosen by a NomCom.</font></span></div></div></blockquote>
<div><br></div>
<div>That's because the ICANN "Nominating Committee" is
misnamed.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>What ICANN has is a selection committee. A true *NOMINATING*
Committee would create a ballot of eligible candidates from which an
electorate would choose representatives. It's that last little step --
having an electorate -- that ICANN has consciously dispensed with.
It's why ICANN has worked so hard to evade the traditional structure
of nonprofits (such as our Chapter's) whose Boards are accountable to
a membership.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Once upon a time there were direct elections to ICANN, which were
gamed. The response to gaming was to eliminate elections, rather than
address the gaming issue. Perhaps that over-reaction needs to be
revisited, especially now that e-voting tech has advanced so much
lately.</div>
<div><br></div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;PADDING-LEFT:1ex" class="gmail_quote">My suggestion is that the ultimate oversigh for
ICANN's economic regulatory function should be the end-users, that
is the registrants of domain names (people/organizations that hold
domain name registrations).</blockquote>
<div><br></div>
<div> </div>
<div>End users != registrants.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>This error occurs frequently within ICANN, and is a constant
source of required vigilance.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>End users are the people sitting at screens or on their mobiles,
who access the Internet without any need for a domain name or
intention to possess one. I reject the assertion by many in the domain
industry that everyone needs to own a domain, that each person on
earth is just a potential registrant who hasn't yet been adequately
marketed to.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Among the current family of registrants -- owning a substantial
chunk of the total domain name pool -- are name speculators and
squatters. ICANN's tolerance of their presence creates artificial
scarcity, raises the cost of Internet entry to startup businesses, and
causes legitimate site and brand owners to needlessly register
defensive names. (They also dramatically inflate the total number of
extant domains, which is now arguably a source of ICANN's own
financial dependence. But that's a different thread.)</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>In this family are also those who create domain names with intent
to defraud. This is why the Red Cross request for domain name
protection came in for special attention at the ICANN Board recently
(supported by the GAC and ALAC), why the lack of enforced WHOIS
accuracy has become a source of controversy, and why the ALAC
continues to challenge the utility of gTLD "Public Interest
Committments" over the protests of the domain industry.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>So, Richard, I must take issue with your definition. While the
interests of registrants often have much in common with those of end
users, they are most certainly not 100% in sync and occasionally in
direct opposition.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Registrants have their own constituencies within the
"Non-Contracted House" half of ICANN's GNSO, from which they protect
their interests. That's not At-Large, which, like ISOC, exists to
assert the perspective of end-users -- the billions outside ICANN's
direct revenue stream who are nonetheless impacted by its
actions.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>- Evan</div>
<div><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>As
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</blockquote>
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Dr. Alejandro Pisanty<br>Facultad de Química UNAM<br>Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico<br>+52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD<br>+525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO SMS +525541444475<br>Blog: <a href="http://pisanty.blogspot.com" target="_blank">http://pisanty.blogspot.com</a><br>
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