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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=ES link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Vint and Richard,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I think you need to find a balance in which service providers find how to produce the least possible harm to individuals without affecting normal operation of their businesses. However, I believe that SP companies should invest more financial resources to alleviate the damage they cause to the rights of individuals finding the right balance between all sectors.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Hector<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Héctor Ariel Manoff<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Vitale, Manoff & Feilbogen<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Viamonte 1145 10º Piso<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>C1053ABW Buenos Aires<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>República Argentina<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Te: (54-11) 4371-6100<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Fax: (54-11) 4371-6365<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>E-mail: <a href="mailto:amanoff@vmf.com.ar"><span style='color:blue'>amanoff@vmf.com.ar</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Web: </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><a href="http://www.vmf.com.ar"><span lang=EN-US style='color:blue'>http://www.vmf.com.ar</span></a></span><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>De:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Chapter-delegates [mailto:chapter-delegates-bounces@elists.isoc.org] <b>En nombre de </b>Vint Cerf<br><b>Enviado el:</b> lunes, 19 de mayo de 2014 10:25<br><b>Para:</b> rhill@hill-a.ch<br><b>CC:</b> Delegates Chapter; Pablo García Mexía; Privacy list; Elist publicpolicy; European Chapters<br><b>Asunto:</b> Re: [Chapter-delegates] [European-chapters] ECJ: Internet searchengine's data processing responsibilities<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Richard, <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>the search provider is being asked to render judgment based on unclear law; in any case, a disagreement between the provider and the plaintiff can lead to litigation which is expensive and very time consuming. The ruling opens the door to endless litigation in my opinion without much in the way of guidelines for what is or isn't a reasonable basis for removal. In print material, facts can stand and are not considered libelous as I understand it. Why would this not also be the case for online content? Wouldn't it be better to argue that the source of the information (which creates the link) should by the party to remove the information if removal is justifiable? That would eliminate the discovery of links by web-crawlers. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>As it stands, we would need to remember everything we are supposed to "forget" - it's backwards.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>v<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 8:59 AM, Richard Hill <<a href="mailto:rhill@hill-a.ch" target="_blank">rhill@hill-a.ch</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>Dear Vint,</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><br><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>Thank you for your comment. There will be litigation only if the search provider refuses the citizen's request. And the litigation will be expensive for the search provider only if the search provider chooses to participate in the legal process under which the citizen would request a data protection officer or court to order the removal of a link.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>A search provider is free to make a judgment based on its own standards. If the citizen does not agree with that judgement, the citizen can take the matter to the authorities. The search provider could default, and leave it up to the authorities to evaluate the merits of the citizen's case.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>You say that, in your opinion, I am trivializing the problem. You are of course entitled to your opinion. But I would invite you to consider whether you might be not be assigning enough weight to the desire of some citizens to retain control of how much can easily be found out about them using search engines.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>By the way, the situation is rather similar, at the meta-level, regarding copyright and defamation. The owner of copyright material can ask a company (albeit not a search engine) to remove material that it believes to be violating its copyright. If the company does not comply, the copyright owner can initiate a court case. Ditto for defamatory material.<br><br>Best,</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>Richard</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>-----Original Message-----<br><b>From:</b> Vint Cerf [mailto:<a href="mailto:vint@google.com" target="_blank">vint@google.com</a>]<br><b>Sent:</b> lundi, 19. mai 2014 14:37<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:rhill@hill-a.ch" target="_blank">rhill@hill-a.ch</a><br><b>Cc:</b> Pablo García Mexía; Frédéric Donck; Delegates Chapter; European Chapters; Privacy list; Elist publicpolicy<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Chapter-delegates] [European-chapters] ECJ: Internet searchengine's data processing responsibilities</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>richard, <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>litigation is EXPENSIVE. Google is being forced to make a judgment based not on its own standards but on an uncertain "standard" that is not clear in the opinion expressed by ECJ. This is not a good outcome. You trivialize the problem in my opinion.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>vint<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 8:02 AM, Richard Hill <<a href="mailto:rhill@hill-a.ch" target="_blank">rhill@hill-a.ch</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>Dear Pablo,</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>Perhaps I misunderstood the ECJ judgement, but it seems to me that it does not impose any obligation on Google to adjudicate privacy or to substitute itself for a judge. As I understand it, the ECJ says that a private person can request that certain links be removed. If the search provider refuses, then the private person can ask his national authorities (data protection officer or courts, as the case may be) to evaluate his request and, if it is justified, to order the search provider to remove the link.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>Best,</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>Richard</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>-----Original Message-----<br><b>From:</b> Chapter-delegates [mailto:<a href="mailto:chapter-delegates-bounces@elists.isoc.org" target="_blank">chapter-delegates-bounces@elists.isoc.org</a>]<b>On Behalf Of </b>Pablo García Mexía<br><b>Sent:</b> lundi, 19. mai 2014 11:35<br><b>To:</b> Frédéric Donck<br><b>Cc:</b> Delegates Chapter; European Chapters; Privacy list; Elist publicpolicy<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Chapter-delegates] [European-chapters] ECJ: Internet searchengine's data processing responsibilities</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Cambria Math","serif";color:blue'></span><span style='font-size:18.0pt;color:blue'>Just wrote an article on my blog on Spanish </span><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Cambria Math","serif";color:blue'></span><span style='font-size:18.0pt;color:blue'>newspaper ABC.es concerning this crucial ruling: <a href="http://abcblogs.abc.es/ley-red/" target="_blank">http://abcblogs.abc.es/ley-red/</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:18.0pt;color:blue'>[In Spanish, sorry!!]<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:18.0pt;color:blue'>Google does searches; the ECJ will have it adjudicate on "privacy" from now on. And yet, how can Google substitute to a judge on issues as relevant and touchy as these?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:18.0pt;color:blue'>Best wishes.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:18.0pt;color:blue'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:18.0pt;color:blue'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:18.0pt;color:blue'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Cambria Math","serif";color:blue'></span><span style='font-size:18.0pt;color:blue'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 11:13 AM, Frédéric Donck <<a href="mailto:donck@isoc.org" target="_blank">donck@isoc.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;text-align:justify'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"'>Dear All</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>Please find below a very important decision from the European Court of Justice. <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>In short, in its <a href="http://curia.europa.eu/jcms/upload/docs/application/pdf/2014-05/cp140070en.pdf" target="_blank">ruling</a> from 13 May [Google vs Spanish Data Protection Agency (AEPD)], the Court of Justice of the European Union stated that an operator of Internet search engine is responsible for the processing that it carries out of personal data which appear on web pages published by third parties. More details in the attach. I would be interested to hear your views.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='text-align:justify'><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-align:justify'>We shall address it in our next EU newsletter but felt that the information deserved immediate distribution.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-align:justify'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Best Regards<br>Frederic<br><br>Frederic Donck<br>Director European Regional Bureau<br>Internet Society<br><br><a href="http://www.isoc.org" target="_blank">www.isoc.org</a></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Début du message réexpédié :<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><br>_______________________________________________<br>As an Internet Society Chapter Officer of the European<br>region you are automatically subscribed to this list,<br>which is regularly synchronized with the Internet<br>Society Chapter Portal (AMS): <a href="https://portal.isoc.org" target="_blank">https://portal.isoc.org</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br clear=all><br>-- <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Pablo García Mexía, J.D., Ph.D. <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Profesor visitante de Derecho de Internet<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>The College of William & Mary<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Sigue mi columna semanal en ABC.es<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><a href="http://abcblogs.abc.es/ley-red/" target="_blank">http://abcblogs.abc.es/ley-red/</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><br>_______________________________________________<br>As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed<br>to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society<br>Chapter Portal (AMS): <a href="https://portal.isoc.org" target="_blank">https://portal.isoc.org</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></blockquote></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div>
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