<div dir="ltr">Richard, <div><br></div><div>the search provider is being asked to render judgment based on unclear law; in any case, a disagreement between the provider and the plaintiff can lead to litigation which is expensive and very time consuming. The ruling opens the door to endless litigation in my opinion without much in the way of guidelines for what is or isn't a reasonable basis for removal. In print material, facts can stand and are not considered libelous as I understand it. Why would this not also be the case for online content? Wouldn't it be better to argue that the source of the information (which creates the link) should by the party to remove the information if removal is justifiable? That would eliminate the discovery of links by web-crawlers. </div>
<div><br></div><div>As it stands, we would need to remember everything we are supposed to "forget" - it's backwards.</div><div><br></div><div>v</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">
On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 8:59 AM, Richard Hill <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:rhill@hill-a.ch" target="_blank">rhill@hill-a.ch</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<u></u>
<div>
<div><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial">Dear
Vint,</font></span></div><span>
<div><br><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial">Thank you for your comment.
There will be litigation only if the search provider refuses the citizen's
request. And the litigation will be expensive for the search provider only
if the search provider chooses to participate in the legal process under which
the citizen would request a data protection officer or court to order the
removal of a link.</font></div>
<div><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial"><font color="#0000ff"><font>A<span> search provider is free to make a judgment based on
its own standards. If the citizen does not agree with that judgement, the
citizen can take the matter to the authorities. The search provider could
default, and leave it up to the authorities to evaluate the merits of the
citizen's case.</span></font></font></font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"><font color="#0000ff"><font><span></span></font></font></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial"><font color="#0000ff"><font><span>You say that, in your opinion, I am trivializing the
problem. You are of course entitled to your opinion. But I would
invite you to consider whether you might be not be assigning enough weight to
the desire of some citizens to retain control of how much can easily be
found out about them using search engines.</span></font></font></font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"><font color="#0000ff"><font><span></span></font></font></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial"><font color="#0000ff"><font><span>By the way, the situation is rather similar, at the
meta-level, regarding copyright and defamation. The owner of copyright
material can ask a company (albeit not a search engine) to remove material that
it believes to be violating its copyright. If the company does not comply,
the copyright owner can initiate a court case. Ditto for defamatory
material.<br><br>Best,</span></font></font></font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"><font color="#0000ff"><font><span>Richard</span></font></font></font></div></span></div><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5">
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#0000ff 2px solid;PADDING-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-RIGHT:0px" dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><font face="Tahoma">-----Original Message-----<br><b>From:</b> Vint Cerf
[mailto:<a href="mailto:vint@google.com" target="_blank">vint@google.com</a>]<br><b>Sent:</b> lundi, 19. mai 2014
14:37<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:rhill@hill-a.ch" target="_blank">rhill@hill-a.ch</a><br><b>Cc:</b> Pablo García Mexía; Frédéric
Donck; Delegates Chapter; European Chapters; Privacy list; Elist
publicpolicy<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Chapter-delegates] [European-chapters]
ECJ: Internet searchengine's data processing
responsibilities<br><br></font></div>
<div dir="ltr">richard,
<div>litigation is EXPENSIVE. Google is being forced to make a judgment based
not on its own standards but on an uncertain "standard" that is not clear in
the opinion expressed by ECJ. This is not a good outcome. You trivialize the
problem in my opinion.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>vint</div>
<div><br></div></div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 8:02 AM, Richard Hill <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:rhill@hill-a.ch" target="_blank">rhill@hill-a.ch</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;PADDING-LEFT:1ex" class="gmail_quote"><u></u>
<div>
<div><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial">Dear Pablo,</font></span></div>
<div><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial"></font></span> </div>
<div><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial">Perhaps I misunderstood the ECJ
judgement, but it seems to me that it does not impose any obligation on
Google to adjudicate privacy or to substitute itself for a judge. As I
understand it, the ECJ says that a private person can request that certain
links be removed. If the search provider refuses, then the private
person can ask his national authorities (data protection officer or courts,
as the case may be) to evaluate his request and, if it is justified, to
order the search provider to remove the link.</font></span></div>
<div><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial"></font></span> </div>
<div><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial">Best,</font></span></div>
<div><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial">Richard</font></span></div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#0000ff 2px solid;PADDING-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-RIGHT:0px" dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><font face="Tahoma">-----Original
Message-----<br><b>From:</b> Chapter-delegates [mailto:<a href="mailto:chapter-delegates-bounces@elists.isoc.org" target="_blank">chapter-delegates-bounces@elists.isoc.org</a>]<b>On Behalf
Of </b>Pablo García Mexía<br><b>Sent:</b> lundi, 19. mai 2014
11:35<br><b>To:</b> Frédéric Donck<br><b>Cc:</b> Delegates Chapter;
European Chapters; Privacy list; Elist publicpolicy<br><b>Subject:</b> Re:
[Chapter-delegates] [European-chapters] ECJ: Internet searchengine's data
processing responsibilities<br><br></font></div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="COLOR:rgb(0,0,255);FONT-SIZE:large" class="gmail_default">Just wrote an article on my blog on Spanish
newspaper ABC.es concerning this crucial ruling: <a href="http://abcblogs.abc.es/ley-red/" target="_blank">http://abcblogs.abc.es/ley-red/</a> </div>
<div style="COLOR:rgb(0,0,255);FONT-SIZE:large" class="gmail_default">[In
Spanish, sorry!!]</div>
<div style="COLOR:rgb(0,0,255);FONT-SIZE:large" class="gmail_default">Google does searches; the ECJ will have it
adjudicate on "privacy" from now on. And yet, how can Google
substitute to a judge on issues as relevant and touchy as these?</div>
<div style="COLOR:rgb(0,0,255);FONT-SIZE:large" class="gmail_default">Best wishes.</div>
<div style="COLOR:rgb(0,0,255);FONT-SIZE:large" class="gmail_default"><br></div>
<div style="COLOR:rgb(0,0,255);FONT-SIZE:large" class="gmail_default"> </div>
<div style="COLOR:rgb(0,0,255);FONT-SIZE:large" class="gmail_default"><br></div>
<div style="COLOR:rgb(0,0,255);FONT-SIZE:large" class="gmail_default"></div></div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 11:13 AM, Frédéric Donck
<span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:donck@isoc.org" target="_blank">donck@isoc.org</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;PADDING-LEFT:1ex" class="gmail_quote">
<div>
<div>
<p style="TEXT-ALIGN:justify" class="MsoNormal"><font style="FONT-SIZE:12px" face="Helvetica">Dear All</font></p></div>
<div><br></div>Please find below a very important decision from the
European Court of Justice.
<div>In short, i<span style="TEXT-ALIGN:justify">n its</span><span style="TEXT-ALIGN:justify"> </span><a style="TEXT-ALIGN:justify" href="http://curia.europa.eu/jcms/upload/docs/application/pdf/2014-05/cp140070en.pdf" target="_blank">ruling</a><span style="TEXT-ALIGN:justify"> </span><span style="TEXT-ALIGN:justify">from 13 May [Google vs Spanish Data
Protection Agency (AEPD)], the Court of Justice of the European Union
stated that an operator of Internet search engine is responsible for the
processing that it carries out of personal data which appear on web
pages published by third parties. More details in the attach. I would be
interested to hear your views.</span></div>
<div>
<div style="TEXT-ALIGN:justify"><br></div>
<div style="TEXT-ALIGN:justify">We shall address it in our next EU
newsletter but felt that the information deserved immediate
distribution.</div>
<div style="TEXT-ALIGN:justify"> </div>
<div><span style="LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;FONT-VARIANT:normal;FONT-STYLE:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;DISPLAY:inline!important;WHITE-SPACE:normal;FLOAT:none;LETTER-SPACING:normal;COLOR:rgb(0,0,0);FONT-WEIGHT:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px">Best
Regards</span><br style="LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;FONT-VARIANT:normal;FONT-STYLE:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal;COLOR:rgb(0,0,0);FONT-WEIGHT:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px">
<span style="LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;FONT-VARIANT:normal;FONT-STYLE:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;DISPLAY:inline!important;WHITE-SPACE:normal;FLOAT:none;LETTER-SPACING:normal;COLOR:rgb(0,0,0);FONT-WEIGHT:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px">Frederic</span><br style="LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;FONT-VARIANT:normal;FONT-STYLE:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal;COLOR:rgb(0,0,0);FONT-WEIGHT:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px">
<br style="LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;FONT-VARIANT:normal;FONT-STYLE:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal;COLOR:rgb(0,0,0);FONT-WEIGHT:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px"><span style="LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;FONT-VARIANT:normal;FONT-STYLE:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;DISPLAY:inline!important;WHITE-SPACE:normal;FLOAT:none;LETTER-SPACING:normal;COLOR:rgb(0,0,0);FONT-WEIGHT:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px">Frederic
Donck</span><br style="LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;FONT-VARIANT:normal;FONT-STYLE:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal;COLOR:rgb(0,0,0);FONT-WEIGHT:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px"><span style="LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;FONT-VARIANT:normal;FONT-STYLE:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;DISPLAY:inline!important;WHITE-SPACE:normal;FLOAT:none;LETTER-SPACING:normal;COLOR:rgb(0,0,0);FONT-WEIGHT:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px">Director
European Regional Bureau</span><br style="LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;FONT-VARIANT:normal;FONT-STYLE:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal;COLOR:rgb(0,0,0);FONT-WEIGHT:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px">
<span style="LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;FONT-VARIANT:normal;FONT-STYLE:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;DISPLAY:inline!important;WHITE-SPACE:normal;FLOAT:none;LETTER-SPACING:normal;COLOR:rgb(0,0,0);FONT-WEIGHT:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px">Internet
Society</span><br style="LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;FONT-VARIANT:normal;FONT-STYLE:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal;COLOR:rgb(0,0,0);FONT-WEIGHT:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px">
<br style="LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;FONT-VARIANT:normal;FONT-STYLE:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal;COLOR:rgb(0,0,0);FONT-WEIGHT:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px"><span style="LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;FONT-VARIANT:normal;FONT-STYLE:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;DISPLAY:inline!important;WHITE-SPACE:normal;FLOAT:none;LETTER-SPACING:normal;COLOR:rgb(0,0,0);FONT-WEIGHT:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px"><a href="http://www.isoc.org" target="_blank">www.isoc.org</a></span><br style="LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;FONT-VARIANT:normal;FONT-STYLE:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal;COLOR:rgb(0,0,0);FONT-WEIGHT:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px">
</div>
<div><br>
<div>Début du message réexpédié :</div><br>
<div style="MARGIN:0px"><br></div>
<div>
<div>
<div><br></div></div></div></div></div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>As
an Internet Society Chapter Officer of the European<br>region you are
automatically subscribed to this list,<br>which is regularly
synchronized with the Internet<br>Society Chapter Portal (AMS): <a href="https://portal.isoc.org" target="_blank">https://portal.isoc.org</a><br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>
<div dir="ltr">Pablo García Mexía, J.D., Ph.D.
<div>Profesor visitante de Derecho de Internet</div>
<div>The College of William & Mary</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Sigue mi columna semanal en ABC.es</div>
<div><a href="http://abcblogs.abc.es/ley-red/" target="_blank">http://abcblogs.abc.es/ley-red/</a></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>As
an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed<br>to
this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet
Society<br>Chapter Portal (AMS): <a href="https://portal.isoc.org" target="_blank">https://portal.isoc.org</a><br></blockquote></div><br></div></blockquote>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>