<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=iso-8859-1"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">Veni<div><br></div><div>Some of what you ask is legitimate, but you are also leaping to legal conclusions that go well beyond the implications of signing or not signing this particle document.</div><div><br></div><div>John More</div><div><br><div><div>On Nov 18, 2013, at 12:50 PM, Veni Markovski <<a href="mailto:veni@veni.com">veni@veni.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite">
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Hi, everyone. <br>
In the beginning - <b>please, read all my comments, as there's
important question, concerning ALL chapters at the end. </b><br>
<br>
Isn't this something we already discussed?<br>
I am not quite following the list, but I thought that some weeks ago
we talked about the fact that ISOC HQ requesting such a document
from chapters around the globe, is a mistake. <br>
I thought that someone has actually made the case why it is not
possible - neither legally, nor from political point of view. <br>
The suggestion that if a chapter cannot sign this document, it can
become an organizational member is also strange - are org members
now non-paying? I thought they pay some sponsorship to ISOC. Hope I
misunderstood the concept?<br>
<br>
Those, who have already signed a wrong document, are not good enough
argument for the rest to sign it, too. <br>
<br>
I personally see no need to hurry, do you? (Of course, there is the
personal moment - if such a requirement is in the quarterly goals of
some people at ISOC?) <br>
<br>
I am afraid that the 23 chapters Ted says have agreed to the MPS,
might not have checked with lawyers, or might not have understood
completely what they are signing, or might have believed that they
are signing a document, which has not importance whatsoever. And
last, but not least, may be they come from countries, where signing
such a document is not important. Note, that we still have not
addressed with the ISOC membership database - the fact that on US
territory, a US-based legal entity is keeping data for Europeans, at
the same time, when ISOC itself is protesting against Prism, ACTA,
TPP and other dangerous initiatives. <br>
<br>
I believe someone also asked on this list <b>ISOC HQ to respond to
the question: </b>how can a chapter support the operating
principles of ISOC? Is there a Board resolution, asking the staff to
request this from the chapters? Now, I guess, we need to ask for
some background information - who decided this is a requirement? How
would it be enforced? What would happen, if it is not followed? Why
would ISOC give its staff to waive any of the requirements? If there
is a waiver, would it be more natural for the chapters to decide
which ones of the requirements fit into their legal model and
statutes, and thus solve the whole problem? Is it not more fair for
the chapters to actually "waive", rather than for a staffer, who may
not even understand the cross-cultural differences or the legal
background. <br>
<br>
Hope this is helpful.<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 11/18/13 12:19, Evan Leibovitch
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:CAMguqh1YTHpHJ+cz5L6vm65XWHnGoL-psrh18e5zVKw6NV73oQ@mail.gmail.com" type="cite"><p dir="ltr">Hi Ted, <br>
Hello everyone,</p><p dir="ltr">I don't have a problem with the intention of the
document. However there may be some local obstacles, and the
Canada Chapter has submitted the renewal document to our own
legal review.</p><p dir="ltr">Specifically: non-profit orgs in Canada must have
clearly stated objectives in their applications for
incorporation. The Canada Chapter may - we likely will - have
problems with local regulators if we legally obligate to
objectives that are both foreign (ie. housed in Reston) and not
completely known (what if ISOC HQ objectives and priorities
change after we incorporate?)</p><p dir="ltr">The current core values of ISOC are hard coded into
the Canadian bylaws and beyond controversy. It is reference to
external, potentially volatile objectives that worries local
regulators.</p><p dir="ltr">In this light, I would personally prefer that the
"paper" link between chapters and HQ be in the form of a
flexible partnership-based Memorandum of Understanding, rather
than the current doc that more resembles a franchise agreement.
An MoU approach offers the extra flexibility that chapters may
require, to adapt the ISOC vision to best address local
environments. It requires more mutual trust than a formal
contract... But really, without a heightened level of mutual
trust, can we really achieve our shared goals as well as we need
to? </p><p dir="ltr">Evan Leibovitch<br>
President<br>
Internet Society Canada Chapter</p>
<br>
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Best,
Veni Markovski
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