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<font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">+1 on the last question,
Grigori. <br>
Ted?<br>
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 11/18/13 14:21, Grigori Saghyan
wrote:<br>
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<blockquote cite="mid:528A68D2.6090704@arminco.com" type="cite">
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Dear All,
I do not think, that the quantity of signatures are reflecting the
real situation. Looks, that for some Chapters only the fact, that
they are formally "ISOC Chapters" is enough argument to sign the
proposed document.
Today Internet Society has serious challenges, and it is possible to
find an adequate answer to these challenges is possible, if there
is common understanding of current problems. And formal description of
the status of the Chapter is one of the most important points.
I do not think, that ISOC with 25 Chapters, who have sign proposed
document is a real power. BTW - who they are?
With respect
Grigori Saghyan
ISOC.AM
On 18.11.2013 21:50, Veni Markovski wrote:
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<pre wrap="">Hi, everyone. In the beginning - *please, read all my comments, as
there's important question, concerning ALL chapters at the end. *
Isn't this something we already discussed? I am not quite following
the list, but I thought that some weeks ago we talked about the
fact that ISOC HQ requesting such a document from chapters around
the globe, is a mistake. I thought that someone has actually made
the case why it is not possible - neither legally, nor from
political point of view. The suggestion that if a chapter cannot
sign this document, it can become an organizational member is also
strange - are org members now non-paying? I thought they pay some
sponsorship to ISOC. Hope I misunderstood the concept?
Those, who have already signed a wrong document, are not good
enough argument for the rest to sign it, too.
I personally see no need to hurry, do you? (Of course, there is
the personal moment - if such a requirement is in the quarterly
goals of some people at ISOC?)
I am afraid that the 23 chapters Ted says have agreed to the MPS,
might not have checked with lawyers, or might not have understood
completely what they are signing, or might have believed that they
are signing a document, which has not importance whatsoever. And
last, but not least, may be they come from countries, where signing
such a document is not important. Note, that we still have not
addressed with the ISOC membership database - the fact that on US
territory, a US-based legal entity is keeping data for Europeans,
at the same time, when ISOC itself is protesting against Prism,
ACTA, TPP and other dangerous initiatives.
I believe someone also asked on this list *ISOC HQ to respond to
the question: *how can a chapter support the operating principles
of ISOC? Is there a Board resolution, asking the staff to request
this from the chapters? Now, I guess, we need to ask for some
background information - who decided this is a requirement? How
would it be enforced? What would happen, if it is not followed? Why
would ISOC give its staff to waive any of the requirements? If
there is a waiver, would it be more natural for the chapters to
decide which ones of the requirements fit into their legal model
and statutes, and thus solve the whole problem? Is it not more fair
for the chapters to actually "waive", rather than for a staffer,
who may not even understand the cross-cultural differences or the
legal background.
Hope this is helpful.
On 11/18/13 12:19, Evan Leibovitch wrote:
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<pre wrap="">
Hi Ted, Hello everyone,
I don't have a problem with the intention of the document.
However there may be some local obstacles, and the Canada Chapter
has submitted the renewal document to our own legal review.
Specifically: non-profit orgs in Canada must have clearly stated
objectives in their applications for incorporation. The Canada
Chapter may - we likely will - have problems with local
regulators if we legally obligate to objectives that are both
foreign (ie. housed in Reston) and not completely known (what if
ISOC HQ objectives and priorities change after we incorporate?)
The current core values of ISOC are hard coded into the Canadian
bylaws and beyond controversy. It is reference to external,
potentially volatile objectives that worries local regulators.
In this light, I would personally prefer that the "paper" link
between chapters and HQ be in the form of a flexible
partnership-based Memorandum of Understanding, rather than the
current doc that more resembles a franchise agreement. An MoU
approach offers the extra flexibility that chapters may require,
to adapt the ISOC vision to best address local environments. It
requires more mutual trust than a formal contract... But really,
without a heightened level of mutual trust, can we really achieve
our shared goals as well as we need to?
Evan Leibovitch President Internet Society Canada Chapter
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<pre wrap="">
--
Best, Veni Markovski <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.veni.com">http://www.veni.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.facebook.com/venimarkovski">https://www.facebook.com/venimarkovski</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://twitter.com/veni">https://twitter.com/veni</a>
The opinions expressed above are those of the author, not of any
organizations, associated with or related to him in any given way.
_______________________________________________ As an Internet
Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed to this
list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
Chapter Portal (AMS): <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://portal.isoc.org">https://portal.isoc.org</a>
</pre>
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<pre wrap="">
- --
Grigori Saghyan
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_______________________________________________
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</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Best,
Veni Markovski
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.veni.com">http://www.veni.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.facebook.com/venimarkovski">https://www.facebook.com/venimarkovski</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://twitter.com/veni">https://twitter.com/veni</a>
The opinions expressed above are those of the
author, not of any organizations, associated
with or related to him in any given way. </pre>
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