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<br>
I agree that if this matter can be brought to the CAC, it will be
more productive.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
SC Leung<br>
ISOC Hong Kong<br>
-------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
於 18/11/2013 14:44, CW Mail 提到:<br>
<span style="white-space: pre;">> Good morning:<br>
><br>
> I suggest that the Chapters give no further consideration to
this matter until it has been thoroughly discussed by the Chapters
Advisory Council (in formation).<br>
><br>
>> They were developed … by a seven member panel ...<br>
><br>
> I explained to Anne Lord, among others, at the time that this
would not fly in its present form.<br>
><br>
> Regards<br>
><br>
> CW<br>
><br>
><br>
> On 17 Nov 2013, at 22:02, Grigori Saghyan
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:gregor@arminco.com"><gregor@arminco.com></a> wrote:<br>
></span><br>
<blockquote type="cite">Dear Ted,<br>
first of all - ISOC is very important organization for the
Internet,<br>
it keeps the spirit of first days of the Internet. I am proud to
be a<br>
member of ISOC from 1996. I beleve, that at that time there was no
any<br>
Chapter.<br>
<br>
But:<br>
<br>
First of all - why any Chapter today need to follow any
performance<br>
standards, developed by 5 Chapter leaders and two staff members
long<br>
time ago?<br>
<br>
I do not see any reason for any Chapter to follow any requirement,<br>
developed by foreign organization (ISOC US).<br>
<br>
If they are subsidiaries - it's ok, they must have any document<br>
(agreement) with their rights and obligations, including
performance<br>
standards obligations.<br>
<br>
But I read from your explanations, that Chapters are independent
NGOs.<br>
So, if it is an independent NGO, this NGO can act according its<br>
bylaws, without any performance standards. Can say more - even
minimal<br>
performance standards, imposed by other organization, looks not<br>
logical and are unacceptable in general.<br>
<br>
I think main problem is here- once more - who are Chapters? Are
they<br>
independent NGOs?<br>
<br>
I think the clear answer on this question will provide healthy<br>
relations inisde ISOC as a global community.<br>
<br>
<br>
Grigori Saghyan<br>
ISOC.AM<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 18.11.2013 0:35, Ted Mooney wrote:<br>
>>> Veni, the minimum performance standards are
referenced in the by<br>
>>> laws but as they are subject to operational updates
and changes<br>
>>> were not codified within the by-laws one by one. They
were<br>
>>> developed prior to my arrival at ISOC by a seven
member panel<br>
>>> consisting of five chapter leaders and two ISOC staff
(Anne Lord<br>
>>> was one of them). These were then circulated for
additional comment<br>
>>> and review before appearing in the letter of
affiliation.<br>
>>><br>
>>> While I was not personally involved at all in their
development, I <br>
>>> support the MPS and believe they are truly that,
minimal. Since<br>
>>> they were developed by chapter leaders and presented
to chapters<br>
>>> for review and comment, it seems to me that
operationally, a good<br>
>>> process was followed.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Happy to discuss further going forward<br>
>>><br>
>>> Ted<br>
>>><br>
>>> Sent from my iPad<br>
>>><br>
>>> On Nov 16, 2013, at 12:17 PM, "Veni Markovski"
<<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:veni@veni.com">veni@veni.com</a> <br>
>>> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:veni@veni.com"><mailto:veni@veni.com></a>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>>> Ted, Joyce, would you, please, point me to the
adequate Board <br>
>>>> resolution, agreeing the text that you sent to
the chapters? I<br>
>>>> tried to find it, but was not successful. I have
also written in<br>
>>>> my original email (see below Elver's comments)
that I would like<br>
>>>> to hear more on some of the items and
requirements, as they are<br>
>>>> not seen in the by-laws, and I don't believe we
have received an<br>
>>>> answer who created them, were they approved by
the Board, and if<br>
>>>> so, why are they not in the by-laws.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> best, veni<br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> On 10/13/13 06:49, Elver Loho wrote:<br>
>>>>> Hi all,<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> We received the same letter at the Estonian
chapter and I<br>
>>>>> quickly filed it under "things to get angry
about later",<br>
>>>>> because I had work to do.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> My reaction may have been colored by the fact
that during the<br>
>>>>> last recent stink on this list, I sent a
letter to Frederic on<br>
>>>>> October 1st proposing a very concrete plan to
start a<br>
>>>>> pan-European policy cooperation working group
to strenghten<br>
>>>>> ISOC's presence in Europe and to get European
chapters involved<br>
>>>>> in actual policy work. And thus far he has
failed to reply.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> We really need to come back to the core
questions, otherwise<br>
>>>>> we'll never get these things sorted out.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> 1. What is the role of chapters in ISOC? 2.
What is the single<br>
>>>>> most important thing that ISOC expects
chapters to do on a<br>
>>>>> day-to-day basis? 3. How does ISOC expect
chapters to finance<br>
>>>>> this activity?<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> I may be a bit cynical here, but it seems to
me that the role<br>
>>>>> of chapters is to show that ISOC has
widespread support around<br>
>>>>> the globe, so as to get funding from PIR. And
that ISOC does<br>
>>>>> not expect chapters to do anything, except
get more members.<br>
>>>>> And that chapters should operate on an
entirely voluntary<br>
>>>>> basis, acquiring new disciples, new names on
a list.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Personally, when we joined ISOC, I was
expecting at least some<br>
>>>>> sort of policy coordination and joint
lobbying effort. I was<br>
>>>>> expecting that chapters would get access to
experts in<br>
>>>>> international law, so that we could lobby
better and ask<br>
>>>>> questions about upcoming treaties. I was
expecting that we<br>
>>>>> would get access to a whole knowledge base
and a network of<br>
>>>>> people to help us coordinate global policy. I
was expecting to<br>
>>>>> get involved. To participate.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Thus far I've been disappointed beyond
belief.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Best, Elver .ee<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:elver.loho@gmail.com">elver.loho@gmail.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:elver.loho@gmail.com"><mailto:elver.loho@gmail.com></a> +372 5661<br>
>>>>> 6933 skype: elver.loho<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> On 13 October 2013 12:44, Veni Markovski
<<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:veni@veni.com">veni@veni.com</a> <br>
>>>>> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:veni@veni.com"><mailto:veni@veni.com></a>> wrote:<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Hi, guys. I guess you have received similar
letters?<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> I already emailed Joyce that there are some
issues with the <br>
>>>>> requirements, mainly in the responsibility of
the chapters ;-) <br>
>>>>> Seems like ISOC is not concerned too much
about the EU<br>
>>>>> personal data protection, or the fact that
may be in some<br>
>>>>> chapters you cannot be a member of the global
ISOC, or that in<br>
>>>>> some cases the elections of the Board may not
take place every<br>
>>>>> year, or every two years; or that the number
of terms may not<br>
>>>>> be limited; or that filing updates with ISOC
may mean extra<br>
>>>>> weight on the chapters to produce the
documents from the<br>
>>>>> General Assembly in English; or that sharing
information with<br>
>>>>> the ISOC staff may not be appropriate; or
that promoting ISOC<br>
>>>>> strategic positions could be considered very
inappropriate<br>
>>>>> (what? considering the position of a US-based
non-profit???).<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Further than that, they are telling us that
if do not meet<br>
>>>>> "one or more" of the "minimum standards", a
process of<br>
>>>>> "rejuvenation" will be initiated.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Somehow I miss all these in the ISOC by-laws,
but may be<br>
>>>>> someone can enlightern us?<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> thanks, and have a great Sunday!<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> v.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> -------- Original Message -------- Subject:
Renewal Internet<br>
>>>>> Society Chapter Charter Date: Fri, 11 Oct
2013 14:42:56 +0000 <br>
>>>>> From: Joyce Dogniez
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dogniez@isoc.org"><dogniez@isoc.org></a><br>
>>>>> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dogniez@isoc.org"><mailto:dogniez@isoc.org></a> To:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:albena.arnaudova@gmail.com">albena.arnaudova@gmail.com</a> <br>
>>>>> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:albena.arnaudova@gmail.com"><mailto:albena.arnaudova@gmail.com></a><br>
>>>>> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:albena.arnaudova@gmail.com"><albena.arnaudova@gmail.com></a> <br>
>>>>> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:albena.arnaudova@gmail.com"><mailto:albena.arnaudova@gmail.com></a>,
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:mitko@mitko.com">mitko@mitko.com</a> <br>
>>>>> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:mitko@mitko.com"><mailto:mitko@mitko.com></a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:mitko@mitko.com"><mitko@mitko.com></a> <br>
>>>>> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:mitko@mitko.com"><mailto:mitko@mitko.com></a>,
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dgreve@isoc.bg">dgreve@isoc.bg</a><br>
>>>>> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dgreve@isoc.bg"><mailto:dgreve@isoc.bg></a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dgreve@isoc.bg"><dgreve@isoc.bg></a><br>
>>>>> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dgreve@isoc.bg"><mailto:dgreve@isoc.bg></a>, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:veni@veni.com">veni@veni.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:veni@veni.com"><mailto:veni@veni.com></a><br>
>>>>> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:veni@veni.com"><veni@veni.com></a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:veni@veni.com"><mailto:veni@veni.com></a>, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:julia@isoc.bg">julia@isoc.bg</a><br>
>>>>> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:julia@isoc.bg"><mailto:julia@isoc.bg></a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:julia@isoc.bg"><julia@isoc.bg></a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:julia@isoc.bg"><mailto:julia@isoc.bg></a><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Dear Chapter Chair,<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Dear Chapter Officers,<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> As previously announced and in accordance
with article IV of<br>
>>>>> the updated Bylaws of the Internet Society on
22 July 2013, I<br>
>>>>> am pleased to send you the updated Chapter
Charter letter for<br>
>>>>> your Chapter, including the chapter minimum
standards as well<br>
>>>>> as the outline of the support to be expected
from the Internet<br>
>>>>> Society.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> This letter reconfirms that the Chapter is
chartered and<br>
>>>>> approved as a Chapter of the Internet
Society.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> These mutual standards were developed in
collaboration and <br>
>>>>> consultation with the Chapters over the past
couple of years <br>
>>>>> prior to the Internet Society Board of
Trustees review. Their <br>
>>>>> implementation was placed on hold until
passage of the updated <br>
>>>>> By-laws so that we could be certain that they
were conform<br>
>>>>> with the amended and restated By-laws. The
performance<br>
>>>>> standards herein reflect both the letter and
the spirit of the<br>
>>>>> updated By-laws.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> I would kindly ask you to sign the Renewal
Chapter Charter<br>
>>>>> letter and return it to
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:chapter-support@isoc.org">chapter-support@isoc.org</a> <br>
>>>>> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:chapter-support@isoc.org"><mailto:chapter-support@isoc.org></a>
before the 15th of December<br>
>>>>> 2013.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Additionally, in accordance with Article
VIII, Organisational<br>
>>>>> Members and Chapters shall each have the
right to form an<br>
>>>>> Advisory body for the purpose of providing
information and<br>
>>>>> advice to the Board of Trustees and the
President of the<br>
>>>>> Internet Society on matters of strategic
importance to that<br>
>>>>> community.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> As kindly requested by a number of Chapter
Officers you will<br>
>>>>> receive an invitation next week to join an
initial working <br>
>>>>> group that will look at the creation and
governance of the <br>
>>>>> Chapter Advisory body.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Should you wish to review the full revised
By-laws :<br>
>>>>>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.internetsociety.org/who-we-are/governance-and-policies/amended-and-restated-laws-internet-society">http://www.internetsociety.org/who-we-are/governance-and-policies/amended-and-restated-laws-internet-society</a><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Please do not hesitate to contact me or any
member of the<br>
>>>>> Chapter Development Team for any further
information.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Naveed Haq (Chapter Development Manager
Asia-Pacific) and<br>
>>>>> myself will be at the IGF in Bali as well,
and have set up a<br>
>>>>> calendar at
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://doodle.com/6iwta8yep3kkrrpf">http://doodle.com/6iwta8yep3kkrrpf</a> should you wish<br>
>>>>> to meet there.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> I'd like to thank you for your continuous
support and passion<br>
>>>>> to advance the Internet Society's mission in
your region.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Kind regards<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Joyce<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> -- Joyce Dogniez, CMM Director of Chapters
Internet Society<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dogniez@isoc.org">dogniez@isoc.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dogniez@isoc.org"><mailto:dogniez@isoc.org></a> tel: +352 621 266<br>
>>>>> 189 <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="tel:%2B352%20621%20266%20189"><tel:%2B352%20621%20266%20189></a>
Skype: joycedogniez<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> --<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Best, Veni Markovski <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.veni.com">http://www.veni.com</a> <br>
>>>>> <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.facebook.com/venimarkovski">https://www.facebook.com/venimarkovski</a> <br>
>>>>> <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://twitter.com/veni">https://twitter.com/veni</a><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> The opinions expressed above are those of the
author, not of<br>
>>>>> any organizations, associated with or related
to him in any<br>
>>>>> given way.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>>
_______________________________________________ As an Internet<br>
>>>>> Society Chapter Officer you are automatically
subscribed to<br>
>>>>> this list, which is regularly synchronized
with the Internet <br>
>>>>> Society Chapter Portal (AMS):
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://portal.isoc.org">https://portal.isoc.org</a><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> --<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Best, Veni Markovski <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.veni.com">http://www.veni.com</a> <br>
>>>> <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.facebook.com/venimarkovski">https://www.facebook.com/venimarkovski</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://twitter.com/veni">https://twitter.com/veni</a><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> The opinions expressed above are those of the
author, not of any<br>
>>>> organizations, associated with or related to him
in any given<br>
>>>> way.<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> _______________________________________________ As an
Internet<br>
>>> Society Chapter Officer you are automatically
subscribed to this<br>
>>> list, which is regularly synchronized with the
Internet Society <br>
>>> Chapter Portal (AMS): <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://portal.isoc.org">https://portal.isoc.org</a><br>
>>><br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<span style="white-space: pre;">>>
_______________________________________________<br>
>> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are
automatically subscribed<br>
>> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the
Internet Society<br>
>> Chapter Portal (AMS): <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://portal.isoc.org">https://portal.isoc.org</a><br>
>><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically
subscribed<br>
> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the
Internet Society<br>
> Chapter Portal (AMS): <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://portal.isoc.org">https://portal.isoc.org</a></span><br>
<br>
<br>
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