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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">+1 Dave <br>
      (from one chapter south of the global waistline)<br>
      <br>
      <br>
      On 07/11/2013 11:36, Dave Burstein wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CAAUuzMTAC4HmvGaHzq=MAkCaJPNb34YeTE7Kj0h=mZa897uqjg@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <div dir="ltr">
        <div class="gmail_default"
          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Democracy is messy,
          especially as Jason notes when the people are 12,000 miles
          away and don't communicate in other ways. Jason is right to
          call for more courtesy whenever possible and calling Ted
          Mooney "dishonest" was worth avoiding. My experience is we are
          all human and make lots of mistakes. Ted strikes me as someone
          who wants to overcome problems that develop and will work to
          solve whatever this is about. </div>
        <div class="gmail_default"
          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_default"
          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">    Ted is getting a
          lot of flack because he's the point man on a real problem that
          needs solving. Jason as a board member I hope will do what he
          can to improve things here. I became involved in ISOC more
          deeply a while back because I thought the issues coming at
          WCIT were profoundly troubling. I was really disappointed to
          discover that what should be a vibrant, "multi-stakeholder"
          group was being run from the top down. There's a clear message
          from the top that chapters are supposed to be "supportive of
          ISOC policy" which they set. Anyone who follows this list can
          provide a dozen examples. Of course, anyone who follows any
          passionate discussion on this or almost anything else can
          provide plenty of examples of anger boiling over like this. </div>
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        <div class="gmail_default"
          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">   Which most of us
          shrug off and happily share a beer later on. Let's hope that
          Alan and Ted reach that point soon. </div>
        <div class="gmail_default"
          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_default"
          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">   And that Jason, as
          well as the rest of the board, exercise good judgment and help
          resolve the underlying problems, which are substantial. In
          particular, I think it's crucially important the replacements
          for Lynn and Markus Kummer have proven experience in working
          with a vibrant, open organization that attracts people of
          strong political views. </div>
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        </div>
        <div class="gmail_default"
          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">   I also think it
          crucial that Lyn and Markus' replacement have the experience
          to bridge the North-South divide. I was horrified to note that
          8 out of 8 people speaking at a recent ISOC presentation to
          members were from the U.S.-Europe access when a strong
          majority of Internet users and ISOC chapters are from the
          BRICs and the developing world. We don't need ethnic tests on
          our staffers but we certainly need more diverse backgrounds.
          Some of our presentations for WCIT were serious battles for
          freedom but others (terms of trade in Internet products,
          practical approached to rural development) were uninformed and
          seriously disrespectful of legitimate issues of less developed
          countries. </div>
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          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_default"
          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">   We need leadership
          who understand issues from the "development" point of view as
          well as the "DC consensus."    </div>
        <div class="gmail_default"
          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_default"
          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Dave Burstein</div>
      </div>
      <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
        <br>
        <div class="gmail_quote"> On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 2:52 PM, CW
          Mail <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="mailto:mail@christopherwilkinson.eu" target="_blank">mail@christopherwilkinson.eu</a>></span>
          wrote:<br>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
            .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
            <div style="word-wrap:break-word">Dear Grigori:
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>Thankyou for these questions. they are very relevant.</div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div><b>1.<span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>Regional

                  Bureaus:</b> </div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>The
                question is not internal ISOC communications. It is our
                external communications with other Internet communities,
                particularly governments and regulators.</div>
              <div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>There has
                to be concentrated, coordinated and consensus based
                policy communication focussed on the relevant actors at
                each point in time. </div>
              <div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>That will
                never be achieved through individual Chapters acting on
                their own through the Internet. </div>
              <div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>The
                Regional Bureaus are not doing that job at present, but
                they should, with the political oversight of the
                Chapters in their Region.</div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div><b>2.<span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>Decentralised

                  staff: </b></div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>(a) <span
                  style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>the published
                ISOC job description for the Regional Bureaus is already
                sufficiently broad that it obviously cannot be done by
                only one or two people operating in large geographical
                areas.</div>
              <div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>(b) <span
                  style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>very few
                Chapters - that I am aware of - have the resources to
                act as 'local staff'. That is part of the parallel
                discussion going on about ISOC administrative support to
                Chapters.</div>
              <div> <span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>in any
                event, a relevant level of knowledge and experience is
                required.</div>
              <div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>(c ) <span
                  style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>most global
                Internet policy issues have a significant national or
                regional dimension, either in terms of timing, or in
                terms of domestic conditions including legislation.</div>
              <div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span></div>
              <div>Grigori:<span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span> This

                response is expressly generic. In the European context
                one could be much more specific in terms of the EU
                institutions and regulators, in terms of the
                geographical scope and in terms of the domestic
                dimension of the policy issues. </div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>Best regards</div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>Christopher</div>
              <div>
                <div class="h5">
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <div>
                      <div>On 06 Nov 2013, at 14:42, Grigori Saghyan
                        <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:gregor@arminco.com"
                          target="_blank">gregor@arminco.com</a>>
                        wrote:</div>
                      <br>
                      <blockquote type="cite">-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED
                        MESSAGE-----<br>
                        Hash: SHA1<br>
                        <br>
                        <br>
                      </blockquote>
                      <blockquote type="cite">Dear Christopher,<br>
                        <br>
                        could you please describe, why we need Regional
                        Bureaus today, when we<br>
                        have all necessary tools for communications
                        using the Internet?<br>
                        <br>
                        And why  it is necessary to have decentralized
                        staff? Each ISOC<br>
                        Chapter is a natural representative of  the
                        Internet  community and<br>
                        can act as a local staff.<br>
                        <br>
                        With respect<br>
                        Grigori Saghyan<br>
                        <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://ISOC.AM"
                          target="_blank">ISOC.AM</a><br>
                        <br>
                        <br>
                        <br>
                        <br>
                        On 06.11.2013 16:57, CW Mail wrote:<br>
                        <blockquote type="cite">Dear Alan and
                          colleagues:<br>
                          <br>
                          I hesitate to intervene in this discussion
                          because had my<br>
                          recommendations of three years ago been
                          promptly implemented, we<br>
                          would not be having this critical discussion
                          today.<br>
                          <br>
                          To be clear, I do not support the dissolution
                          of the Regional<br>
                          Bureaus. My position is that the staff should
                          be decentralised to<br>
                          the Regional Bureaus and that the Regional
                          Bureaus must be<br>
                          politically accountable to the Chapters in
                          their Region.<br>
                          <br>
                          The second point is of course a pre-condition
                          for the first.<br>
                          <br>
                          Having been neither a Trustee nor a senior
                          staff member, I abstain<br>
                          from that argument as well. Clearly the
                          Chapters have been<br>
                          under-represented in the Board of Trustees for
                          a considerable<br>
                          period of time, and that might have
                          contributed to a certain lack<br>
                          of understanding, if not sensitivity, to
                          Chapter issues.<br>
                          <br>
                          Regards to you all<br>
                          <br>
                          Christopher Wilkinson.<br>
                          <br>
                          <br>
                          <br>
                          <br>
                          On 06 Nov 2013, at 12:37, Alan Levin <<a
                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="mailto:alan@isoc.org.za"
                            target="_blank">alan@isoc.org.za</a>>
                          wrote:<br>
                          <br>
                          <blockquote type="cite"> Dear Veni,<br>
                            <br>
                            On 05 Nov 2013, at 8:49 PM, Veni Markovski
                            <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                              href="mailto:veni@veni.com"
                              target="_blank">veni@veni.com</a>><br>
                            wrote:<br>
                            <blockquote type="cite">You are right. The
                              staffers are good people. I'd say -<br>
                              amazingly good people.<br>
                            </blockquote>
                            <br>
                            I am so sorry as in the past I would always
                            have agreed with this<br>
                            comment. Sadly, after spending more than a
                            calendar day in<br>
                            various discussions with Ted Mooney in
                            Durban a few months ago, I<br>
                            found him to have been dishonest with me. I
                            would not state this<br>
                            in such a public forum unless I was entirely
                            convinced on three<br>
                            bases, 1. regarding ISOC Gauteng, 2.
                            regarding a visit to ISOC<br>
                            projects in Gauteng that I sent him to, and
                            3. regarding a<br>
                            commitment to observing netiquette.<br>
                            <br>
                            I have told Ted that cannot trust him and
                            that I believe he is<br>
                            waging a war against ISOC-ZA yet he
                            persists. Sadly he is in<br>
                            charge of ISOCs position on all of us :(<br>
                            <br>
                            On the other hand I've had a few discussion
                            with the Trustees and<br>
                            I believe that they are fully aware of the
                            issues and are fully<br>
                            supportive of the Chapters needs. I expect
                            that with the new CEO<br>
                            we will see dissolution of the 'bureaus' and
                            additional global<br>
                            policy analysts that will be available to
                            assist us with policy<br>
                            issues at national or regional levels.<br>
                            <br>
                            Sincerely<br>
                            <br>
                            Alan<br>
                            <br>
                            <br>
                            <br>
                            <br>
                            <br>
                            <br>
                            <br>
                            _______________________________________________

                            As an Internet<br>
                            Society Chapter Officer you are
                            automatically subscribed to this<br>
                            list, which is regularly synchronized with
                            the Internet Society <br>
                            Chapter Portal (AMS): <a
                              moz-do-not-send="true"
                              href="https://portal.isoc.org"
                              target="_blank">https://portal.isoc.org</a><br>
                            <br>
                          </blockquote>
                          <br>
                          _______________________________________________

                          As an Internet<br>
                          Society Chapter Officer you are automatically
                          subscribed to this<br>
                          list, which is regularly synchronized with the
                          Internet Society <br>
                          Chapter Portal (AMS): <a
                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="https://portal.isoc.org"
                            target="_blank">https://portal.isoc.org</a><br>
                          <br>
                        </blockquote>
                        <br>
                        <br>
                        - -- <br>
                        Grigori Saghyan<br>
                        PGP Key ID: 0x48E4D5DC<br>
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                        _______________________________________________<br>
                        As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are
                        automatically subscribed<br>
                        to this list, which is regularly synchronized
                        with the Internet Society<br>
                        Chapter Portal (AMS): <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="https://portal.isoc.org" target="_blank">https://portal.isoc.org</a><br>
                        <br>
                      </blockquote>
                    </div>
                    <br>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
            <br>
            _______________________________________________<br>
            As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically
            subscribed<br>
            to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the
            Internet Society<br>
            Chapter Portal (AMS): <a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="https://portal.isoc.org" target="_blank">https://portal.isoc.org</a><br>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
        <br>
        <br clear="all">
        <div><br>
        </div>
        -- <br>
        <div dir="ltr">Editor, Fast Net News, Net Policy News and A
          Wireless Cloud<br>
          Author with Jennie Bourne  DSL (Wiley, 2002) and Web Video:
          Making It Great, Getting It Noticed (Peachpit, 2008)</div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <br>
      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
Chapter Portal (AMS): <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://portal.isoc.org">https://portal.isoc.org</a></pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="86">-- 
Paul Brooks
Board member
ISOC-AU - Internet Society of Australia</pre>
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