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    What a bad news !!!<br>
    History will record that the current generation in Cambodia has left
    die this Chapter, and published  its death certificate.<br>
    I'm still hoping that another new generation will come out from  the
    Internet community of Cambodia to resurrect that ISOC Chapter.<br>
    Warm regards,<br>
    /Janvier<br>
    ISOC Cameroon Chapter<br>
    <blockquote cite="mid:52781B9C.8020609@veni.com" type="cite"><font
        face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"> <br>
        <br>
      </font>
      <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 11/03/13 21:26, Chantra Be wrote:<br>
      </div>
      <blockquote
cite="mid:CAOmi_Vpzw6Y9CTAcuZZm5+qjOeyvm7zC6mD4xhVCLi8F5PCMsQ@mail.gmail.com"
        type="cite">
        <div dir="ltr">
          <div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,102)">
            <p style="margin:0px;padding:0px 0px
10px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,Verdana,clean,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13px;line-height:18.1875px"><strong><font
                  face="Arial, sans-serif"><span lang="zxx">Dear All,</span></font></strong></p>
            <p style="margin:0px;padding:0px 0px
10px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,Verdana,clean,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13px;line-height:18.1875px"><strong><font
                  face="Arial, sans-serif"><span lang="zxx">On 26
                    October 2013, a meeting was held according
                    to Article XII of the Bylaws of the Cambodian
                    Chapter of the Internet Society:</span></font></strong></p>
            <p style="margin:0.18cm 0px 0px 1.25cm;padding:0px 0px
10px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,Verdana,clean,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13px;line-height:18.1875px"
              lang="en-US" align="JUSTIFY"> <font color="#000000"><font
                  face="Arial, sans-serif"><font size="3"><b>Article
                      XII. - Dissolution of the Chapter</b></font></font></font></p>
            <p style="margin:0.18cm 0px 0px 1.25cm;padding:0px 0px
10px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,Verdana,clean,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13px;line-height:18.1875px"
              lang="en-US" align="JUSTIFY"> <font color="#000000"><font
                  face="Arial, sans-serif"><font size="3">1. 
                    Dissolution of this Chapter by consent of the
                    members shall consist of unanimous agreement of all
                    its officers together with a majority vote at a
                    meeting which has been publicized in advance to all
                    members of the Chapter for the purpose of taking
                    this vote.</font></font></font></p>
            <p style="margin:0px 0px 0px 1.25cm;padding:0px 0px
10px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,Verdana,clean,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13px;line-height:18.1875px"><strong><font
                  color="#000000"><font face="Arial, sans-serif"><font
                      size="3"><span lang="zxx"><span
                          style="font-weight:normal">2.  Should this
                          Chapter be dissolved, its assets shall be
                          transferred to ISOC International
                          Headquarters.</span></span></font></font></font></strong></p>
            <p style="margin:0px;padding:0px 0px
10px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,Verdana,clean,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13px;line-height:18.1875px"
              lang="zxx"><br>
              <span
                style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;line-height:1.4em">The

                meeting had been called on 23 September 2013, stating:</span></p>
            <p style="margin:0px 0px 0px 1.25cm;padding:0px 0px
10px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,Verdana,clean,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13px;line-height:18.1875px"
              lang="zxx"><font face="Arial, sans-serif"><br>
                “It is to propose – unless real and practical
                alternatives are identified within the following month –
                to call a meeting of all members of our Chapter for the
                purpose of taking a vote to dissolve the ISOC Cambodia
                Chapter.”</font></p>
            <p style="margin:0px 0px 0px 1.25cm;padding:0px 0px
10px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,Verdana,clean,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13px;line-height:18.1875px"
              lang="zxx"><br>
            </p>
            <p style="margin:0px;padding:0px 0px
10px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,Verdana,clean,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13px;line-height:18.1875px"><font
                face="Arial, sans-serif"><span lang="zxx"><b>The meeting
                    decided to dissolve the ISOC Cambodia Chapter; this
                    decision becomes effective after the present
                    Announcement will have been sent out:</b></span></font></p>
            <ul
              style="margin:0px;padding:0px;list-style:none;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:'Myriad

              Pro',Myriad,'Lucida
Grande',Geneva,Arial,Verdana,clean,sans-serif;font-size:13px;line-height:18.1875px">
              <li
style="margin:0px;padding:0px;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;line-height:1.4em"><span
                  style="line-height:1.4em">- to all members of the ISOC
                  Cambodia Chapter</span></li>
              <li
style="margin:0px;padding:0px;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;line-height:1.4em"><span
                  style="line-height:1.4em">- to the Chapter Delegates
                  list of ISOC</span></li>
              <li
style="margin:0px;padding:0px;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;line-height:1.4em"><span
                  style="line-height:1.4em">- to the Chairperson of the
                  Board of ISOC</span></li>
              <li style="margin:0px;padding:0px"><span
                  style="line-height:1.4em;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"
                  lang="zxx">- to the ISOC Senior Director, Membership
                  & Services (You had written: “</span><span
                  style="line-height:1.4em;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">If

                  the Cambodian Chapter wishes to rescind its ISOC
                  chapter status, a letter so stating to the APAC
                  Chapter Development manager is sufficient” - would you
                  please forward it there – or also to other persons in
                  ISOC beyond the APAC office who might want to know.)</span></li>
            </ul>
            <p style="margin:0px;padding:0px 0px
10px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,Verdana,clean,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13px;line-height:18.1875px"
              lang="zxx"><span
                style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;line-height:1.4em"
                lang="zxx"><br>
              </span></p>
            <p style="margin:0px;padding:0px 0px
10px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,Verdana,clean,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13px;line-height:18.1875px"
              lang="zxx"><span
                style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;line-height:1.4em"
                lang="zxx">This decision was taken </span><span
                style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;line-height:1.4em"
                lang="zxx">drawing together the conclusions of the
                correspondence with ISOC staff and ISOC Chapter
                leaders: </span><span
                style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;line-height:1.4em"
                lang="zxx">we appreciate very much the many encouraging
                comments from other Chapters, and we regret that the
                expected correspondence from ISOC staff – regional and
                central – was late, or not forthcoming at all, and not
                proposing real and practical steps ahead.</span></p>
            <p style="margin:0px;padding:0px 0px
10px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,Verdana,clean,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13px;line-height:18.1875px"
              lang="zxx"><font face="Arial, sans-serif"><br>
              </font></p>
            <p style="margin:0px;padding:0px 0px
10px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,Verdana,clean,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13px;line-height:18.1875px"
              lang="zxx"> <font face="Arial, sans-serif"><b>The
                  following is to be more specific:</b></font></p>
            <p style="margin:0px;padding:0px 0px
10px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,Verdana,clean,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13px;line-height:18.1875px"><font
                face="Arial, sans-serif"><span lang="zxx">In response to
                  the “Interim Information: Serious considerations to
                  dissolve the Cambodia ISOC Chapter” which </span></font><font
                face="Arial, sans-serif"><span lang="zxx">we</span></font><font
                face="Arial, sans-serif"><span lang="zxx"> had sent to
                  you and to ISOC Chapter leaders and ISOC staff on 16
                  Oct 2013, we received the following response from Ted
                  Mooney - ISOC Senior Director, Membership &
                  Services – on 18 October 2013, under the Subject line
                  “Communication and moving forward with the ISOC
                  Cambodia Chapter.” <br>
                  <br>
                  I quote </span></font><em><font face="Arial,
                  sans-serif"><span lang="zxx">the mail from Ted Mooney
                    here in Italics</span></font></em><font face="Arial,
                sans-serif"><span lang="zxx">, to distinguish it from
                  comments from other Chapter leaders and from our own
                  side.<br>
                  <br>
                </span></font><em><font face="Arial, sans-serif"><span
                    lang="zxx">Dear Chantra Be,<br>
                    <br>
                    I've followed with great interest the responses from
                    Norbert Klein on the Chapter Delegates e-list.  I
                    want you to know that I and many of us at ISOC have
                    thoroughly read your original email more than once
                    and the subsequent messages from Mr. Klein. I have
                    researched the claims made regarding the
                    correspondences between ISOC Staff and the Cambodian
                    Chapter and the outreach attempts made on both
                    sides.  It is evident that Staff has a different
                    interpretation of the data than has the Chapter.  It
                    is, in my opinion therefore, not constructive to
                    dwell on the past but to address the issues raised
                    in your message, once again. <br>
                  </span></font></em><font face="Arial, sans-serif"><span
                  lang="zxx"><br>
                  Ted Mooney refers again to outreach attempts
                  supposedly made by ISOC staff. <br>
                  <br>
                  This is not the first time such claims are made, and
                  therefore we had responded:</span></font></p>
            <span
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13px;line-height:1.4em;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">-
              We do not know “what has been communicated to” the ISOC
              Senior Director, Membership & Services in this respect
              – but the situation continues: neither the Singapore based
              ISOC ASIA PACIFIC staff, nor the ISOC  Chapter Development
              Manager, Asia-Pacific, nor the  ISOC Senior Director,
              Membership & Services have responded to the detailed
              content in the mail from our Secretary...</span><br
              style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:'Myriad
              Pro',Myriad,'Lucida
Grande',Geneva,Arial,Verdana,clean,sans-serif;font-size:13px;line-height:18.1875px">
            <b
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13px;line-height:1.4em;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">-
              But if such mail was sent and we did not receive it for
              whatever reason – it would be appropriate to share it here
              on the Chapters list.</b><br
              style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:'Myriad
              Pro',Myriad,'Lucida
Grande',Geneva,Arial,Verdana,clean,sans-serif;font-size:13px;line-height:18.1875px">
            <ul
              style="margin:0px;padding:0px;list-style:none;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:'Myriad

              Pro',Myriad,'Lucida
Grande',Geneva,Arial,Verdana,clean,sans-serif;font-size:13px;line-height:18.1875px">
              <li style="margin:0px;padding:0px"><b
                  style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;line-height:1.4em"><br>
                </b></li>
              <li style="margin:0px;padding:0px"><b
                  style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;line-height:1.4em">Instead

                  of using this opportunity to provide copies of such
                  mail, we received again just the same baseless claims.</b></li>
            </ul>
            <font
              style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13px;line-height:18.1875px"
              face="Arial, sans-serif"><span lang="zxx"><br>
                More serious is that he says </span></font><em
              style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:'Myriad
              Pro',Myriad,'Lucida
Grande',Geneva,Arial,Verdana,clean,sans-serif;font-size:13px;line-height:18.1875px"><font
                face="Arial, sans-serif"><span lang="zxx">“It is, in my
                  opinion therefore, not constructive to dwell on the
                  past.”</span></font></em><font
              style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13px;line-height:18.1875px"
              face="Arial, sans-serif"><span lang="zxx"> - </span></font><font
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13px;line-height:18.1875px"
              face="Arial, sans-serif"><span lang="zxx">H</span></font><font
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13px;line-height:18.1875px"
              face="Arial, sans-serif"><span lang="zxx">e </span></font><font
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13px;line-height:18.1875px"
              face="Arial, sans-serif"><span lang="zxx">had </span></font><font
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13px;line-height:18.1875px"
              face="Arial, sans-serif"><span lang="zxx">criticized our </span></font><font
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13px;line-height:18.1875px"
              face="Arial, sans-serif"><span lang="zxx">sharing of
                concerns about the non-responsiveness of ISOC staff with
                other Chapters and the Chairperson of the ISOC Board</span></font><font
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13px;line-height:18.1875px"
              face="Arial, sans-serif"><span lang="zxx"> to be
                unprofessional. </span></font><font
              style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13px;line-height:18.1875px"
              face="Arial, sans-serif"><span lang="zxx">H</span></font><font
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13px;line-height:18.1875px"
              face="Arial, sans-serif"><span lang="zxx">e is continuing
                to refuse to deal with serious problems. I repeat again
                our mail </span></font><font
              style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13px;line-height:18.1875px"
              face="Arial, sans-serif"><span lang="zxx">which </span></font><font
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13px;line-height:18.1875px"
              face="Arial, sans-serif"><span lang="zxx">related to one
                of the two staff at the Asia Pacific Regional Office:<br>
                <br>
                = = =<br>
                <br>
              </span></font><strong
              style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:'Myriad
              Pro',Myriad,'Lucida
Grande',Geneva,Arial,Verdana,clean,sans-serif;font-size:13px;line-height:18.1875px"><font
                face="Arial, sans-serif"><span lang="zxx">“ Dear Thip,<br>
                </span></font></strong><strong
              style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:'Myriad
              Pro',Myriad,'Lucida
Grande',Geneva,Arial,Verdana,clean,sans-serif;font-size:13px;line-height:1.4em"><font
                face="Arial, sans-serif"><span lang="zxx">After having
                  received your mail, rejecting our request to serious
                  discuss the crisis for our Chapter, created as a
                  result of the general situation and legal requirements
                  in Cambodia in the meeting, and the refusal to ISOC
                  staff to positively pay attention to our situation, we
                  do not think it would be appropriate to cooperate, as
                  a Chapter, with organizing a meeting for your 1 - 2.5
                  hours event, for which you would like to invite the
                  Members of the Cambodia Chapter and other non-Chapter
                  members. To discuss fundamental problems within ISOC,
                  affecting the whole membership, only among officers,
                  as you suggest (which has been tried in vain by email
                  so far) would not be in line with our history to
                  promote and practice open communication – high values
                  regularly lifted up among the goals of the Internet
                  Society world wide and in its slogan: the Internet is
                  for everyone.</span></font></strong><strong
              style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:'Myriad
              Pro',Myriad,'Lucida
Grande',Geneva,Arial,Verdana,clean,sans-serif;font-size:13px;line-height:18.1875px"><font
                face="Arial, sans-serif"><span lang="zxx"><br>
                  <br>
                  The situation and this response has been shared and
                  discussed with the Members of the Advisory Board of
                  our Chapter and is unanimously supported.<br>
                  <br>
                  Norbert Klein<br>
                  President, ISOC-KH<br>
                  <br>
                </span></font></strong><font
              style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13px;line-height:18.1875px"
              face="Arial, sans-serif"><span lang="zxx">    The five
                members of our Advisory Board at that time were
                (reflecting the stipulation of our Bylaws “The Advisory
                Board of five members, from important sections of the
                ISOC Cambodia Chapter membership”):</span></font> <span
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13px;line-height:1.4em;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,Verdana,clean,sans-serif"> 
                     - </span><font
              style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13px;line-height:1.4em"
              face="Arial, sans-serif"><span lang="zxx">the Head of the
                IT in Education Section in the Ministry of Education</span></font><br
              style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:'Myriad
              Pro',Myriad,'Lucida
Grande',Geneva,Arial,Verdana,clean,sans-serif;font-size:13px;line-height:18.1875px">
            <span
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13px;line-height:1.4em;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,Verdana,clean,sans-serif"> 
                     - </span><font
              style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13px;line-height:1.4em"
              face="Arial, sans-serif"><span lang="zxx">the Editor in
                Chief of a leading Cambodian daily newspaper, who is at
                the same time President of  the Club of Cambodian
                Journalists</span></font><br
              style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:'Myriad
              Pro',Myriad,'Lucida
Grande',Geneva,Arial,Verdana,clean,sans-serif;font-size:13px;line-height:18.1875px">
            <span
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13px;line-height:1.4em;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,Verdana,clean,sans-serif"> 
                     - </span><font
              style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13px;line-height:1.4em"
              face="Arial, sans-serif"><span lang="zxx">the President
                and CEO of a major broadband providing ISP</span></font><br
              style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:'Myriad
              Pro',Myriad,'Lucida
Grande',Geneva,Arial,Verdana,clean,sans-serif;font-size:13px;line-height:18.1875px">
            <span
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13px;line-height:1.4em;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,Verdana,clean,sans-serif"> 
                     - </span><font
              style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13px;line-height:1.4em"
              face="Arial, sans-serif"><span lang="zxx">a senior staff
                member in the office of the Council of Ministers of the
                Government of Cambodia, and</span></font><br
              style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:'Myriad
              Pro',Myriad,'Lucida
Grande',Geneva,Arial,Verdana,clean,sans-serif;font-size:13px;line-height:18.1875px">
            <span
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13px;line-height:1.4em;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,Verdana,clean,sans-serif"> 
                     - </span><font
              style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13px;line-height:1.4em"
              face="Arial, sans-serif"><span lang="zxx">one student.</span></font><br
              style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:'Myriad
              Pro',Myriad,'Lucida
Grande',Geneva,Arial,Verdana,clean,sans-serif;font-size:13px;line-height:18.1875px">
            <p style="margin:0px;padding:0px 0px
10px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,Verdana,clean,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13px;line-height:18.1875px"
              lang="zxx"><font face="Arial, sans-serif">= = = <br>
                <br>
                We do not have much confidence in regional and central
                staff of ISOC that has damaged the formerly good name of
                ISOC in Cambodian society, and no word is seen from them
                to apologize publicly or to rectify this – but instead
                it is considered that we are unprofessional to raise
                such unsolved problems. We do not think it is acceptable
                that ISOC staff visits a country, refuses to discuss the
                problems identified as important by a Chapter, holds her
                own meeting to which she invited some people who said
                they did not know an hour ago that ISOC exists – and she
                encourages them to become members and run for leadership
                in the elections one month later. And senior staff of
                ISOC just keeps silent.</font></p>
            <p style="margin:0px;padding:0px 0px
10px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,Verdana,clean,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13px;line-height:18.1875px"><font
                face="Arial, sans-serif"><span lang="zxx">The
                  Documentation Center of Cambodia - <a
                    moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.dccam.org">www.dccam.org</a>
                  – has in every mail originating from th</span></font><font
                face="Arial, sans-serif"><span lang="zxx">em</span></font><font
                face="Arial, sans-serif"><span lang="zxx"> the sentence:<br>
                  <br>
                </span></font><strong><font face="Arial, sans-serif"><span
                    lang="zxx">“...a society cannot know itself if it
                    does not have an accurate memory of its own
                    history.”</span></font></strong></p>
            <p style="margin:0px;padding:0px 0px
10px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,Verdana,clean,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13px;line-height:18.1875px"
              lang="zxx"> <font face="Arial, sans-serif">The Internet
                Society would do well to consider this also for itself,
                on its way into a better future.<br>
              </font><br>
              <br>
            </p>
            <p style="margin:0px;padding:0px 0px
10px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,Verdana,clean,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13px;line-height:18.1875px"><font
                face="Arial, sans-serif"><span lang="zxx">Ted Mooney
                  continues:<br>
                  <br>
                </span></font><em><font face="Arial, sans-serif"><span
                    lang="zxx"><b>1.</b> Chapter by-laws. From various
                    correspondences and information sent to the Cambodia
                    Chapter, including examples of by-laws from other
                    chapters and stated flexibility to address the local
                    needs dating back to 2011, I would like to
                    re-iterate the flexibility of the Chapter By-laws
                    template to assure that agreed Chapter By-laws
                    account for all local laws and special circumstances
                    with respect to jurisdiction, foreign affiliation
                    and governance.<br>
                  </span></font></em><font face="Arial, sans-serif"><span
                  lang="zxx"><br>
                  What he calls flexibility seems more to be a situation
                  of confusion in ISOC operations. It is obvious from
                  the correspondence on the Chapters list - that not all
                  Chapters have been made to accept what is now in our
                  Bylaws – but these problematic elements continue to be
                  on the ISOC website as “mandatory” elements. And while
                  he informs us that we are free to flexibly apply the
                  Chapters Bylaws template, </span></font><font
                face="Arial, sans-serif"><span lang="zxx">at the same
                  time </span></font><font face="Arial, sans-serif"><span
                  lang="zxx">“Renewal Chapter Charter letters” are going
                  out to be signed and returned by 15 December 2013,
                  including “chapter minimum standards” stating that if
                  a Chapter does not meet "one or more" a process of
                  “rejuvenation” will be initiated.<br>
                  <br>
                  One Chapter chair commented: “Somehow I miss all these
                  in the ISOC by-laws, but may be someone can enlighten
                  us?”<br>
                  <br>
                  There is obviously no clarity and broad agreement with
                  Chapters at present about the content and role of
                  Chapter Bylaws, as some of the Chapter </span></font><font
                face="Arial, sans-serif"><span lang="zxx">Delegates</span></font><font
                face="Arial, sans-serif"><span lang="zxx"> mails show –
                  with reference to a lot of time spent for nothing in
                  the past (</span></font><strong><font face="Arial,
                  sans-serif"><span lang="zxx">highlighting added</span></font></strong><font
                face="Arial, sans-serif"><span lang="zxx"> in our
                  quoting):<br>
                </span></font><br>
              <strong style="line-height:1.4em"><font face="Arial,
                  sans-serif"><span lang="zxx">-------- Original Message
                    -------- </span></font></strong></p>
            <p style="margin:0px;padding:0px 0px
10px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,Verdana,clean,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13px;line-height:18.1875px"><strong><font
                  face="Arial, sans-serif"><span lang="zxx">Subject: Re:
                    [Chapter-delegates] Fwd: Renewal Internet Society
                    Chapter Charter<br>
                    Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2013 15:44:09 +0200<br>
                    From: Klaus Birkenbihl <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                      class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
                      href="mailto:Klaus.Birkenbihl@Isoc.de"><Klaus.Birkenbihl@Isoc.de></a><br>
                    Organization: Internet Society German Chapter e.V. (<a
                      moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://ISOC.DE">ISOC.DE</a>)<br>
                    To: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="mailto:chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org">chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org</a>
                    <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="mailto:chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org">chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org</a>><br>
                    <br>
                    <br>
                    ...I also don't foresee much change in practice if
                    we sign the letter. Nevertheless it is the wrong
                    thing at the wrong time. During the last years when
                    chapters became more visible and active we discussed
                    so many beautiful things that could give support and
                    help to be more effective. E.g. Issue Trackers to
                    identify issues and track their resolution, Wikis to
                    support collaboration and many other things the
                    Internet holds that other groups use to do better
                    work. So next thing we expected to see was some
                    progress here.<br>
                    <br>
                    But instead of picking up e.g. the prototype that
                    was provided by Elena, we still lack reporting
                    facilities for projects and problems, collaboration
                    tools, we stick to the old work-intensive AMS to
                    exchange our member data … But what we get is
                    another version of the Letter of Affiliation.<br>
                    <br>
                    Please keep in mind: it is effort, money and time
                    that is provided by chapters members that is used to
                    do the work.<br>
                    <br>
                    Financial support by ISOC is rather marginal. (Did
                    you e.g ever manage to organize an event for $2000?
                    For our last event even the fee for the room was
                    higher.) Knowing that ISOC lacks the budget to pay
                    them, chapters - though complaining once and a while
                    - continue to work on this base.<br>
                    <br>
                    The Letter of Association says ISOC wants you to
                    perform such and such, wants to define a maximum
                    number of terms for office holders [is this really a
                    mission related concern?], and you need ["we believe
                    in numbers"] to have that many individual members,
                    [can it be summed-up with corporations? - AMS still
                    don't let me report corporate members] and so forth.
                    Read this while keeping in mind that its chapters
                    time, chapters money, chapters effort. Doesn't it
                    annoy you?<br>
                    <br>
                    I don't say we should be against the Letters of
                    Association but given the situation as it is - they
                    should be the result of negotiations and not a
                    headquarters dictatorship.<br>
                    <br>
                    Maybe the newly to be created Chapters Advisory
                    would be the group to develop a template that
                    fulfills 2 criteria:<br>
                    <br>
                      - it is balanced in terms of responsibility and
                    control, benefit and achievements<br>
                      - it allow</span></font></strong><strong><font
                  face="Arial, sans-serif"><span lang="zxx">s</span></font></strong><strong><font
                  face="Arial, sans-serif"><span lang="zxx"> to be
                    adjusted to needs of individual chapters (e.g. those
                    with a commercial branch, or with corporate members,
                    or with a special focus like accessibility ...)<br>
                    <br>
                    Such Letter of Association could have a real effect.<br>
                    <br>
                    Klaus</span></font></strong></p>
            <p style="margin:0px;padding:0px 0px
10px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,Verdana,clean,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13px;line-height:18.1875px"><strong><font
                  face="Arial, sans-serif"><span lang="zxx">=</span></font></strong></p>
            <p style="margin:0px;padding:0px 0px
10px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,Verdana,clean,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13px;line-height:18.1875px"><em><font
                  face="Arial, sans-serif"><span lang="zxx"><b>2.</b> The

                    Chapter Administrative Support Working Group is now
                    meeting regularly to discuss various ways to address
                    Chapter issues regarding operational resources. As
                    you have noted from the discussion in this email
                    forum, there is a wide disparity of views and
                    therefore, multiple solutions may be piloted.<br>
                    <br>
                    It is regrettable that this has not come together as
                    quickly as the Cambodia Chapter has needed, so we
                    hope that you will reconsider your voluntary
                    de-chartering until there are more widely available
                    support options for you to evaluate. Please do keep
                    in mind that local self-sufficiency will always be a
                    key component of any operations resource strategy.<br>
                  </span></font></em><font face="Arial, sans-serif"><span
                  lang="zxx"><br>
                  While local self-sufficiency is a broadly
                  understandable principle, the way this issue has been
                  treated so far seems to have seen this as a financial
                  affair. We have not seen response to the much more
                  complex situation, where many people in Cambodia have,
                  over the years and again recently, been
                  self-sufficient in providing their energy, their
                  health, their freedom, and in some cases their lives
                  in the struggle for justice and in the struggle to be
                  free to communicate about it. </span></font><font
                face="Arial, sans-serif"><span lang="zxx">A</span></font><font
                face="Arial, sans-serif"><span lang="zxx"> lot of public
                  support, legal assistance, and care for victims, is
                  however not based on local finances, but is provided
                  by organizations and institutions extending external
                  solidarity funding support. <br>
                  <br>
                  We have shared information that communication
                  technology and information networks are fairly well
                  developed in Cambodia and there are working groups,
                  regular activities, IXPs, organized structures, </span></font><font
                face="Arial, sans-serif"><span lang="zxx">Barcamps (the
                  most recent one a week ago with more than 2000
                  participants)</span></font><font face="Arial,
                sans-serif"><span lang="zxx"> – quite a number of the
                  ISOC Cambodia Chapter members provided leadership in
                  these fields. Our inquiry if ISOC could financially
                  assist in setting up and initially operating an office
                  was clearly related to the specific government
                  regulations (</span></font><strong><font face="Arial,
                  sans-serif"><span lang="zxx">following the ISOC staff
                    guided Bylaw: “The Chapter shall be established as a
                    non-profit organization under the laws of Cambodia”</span></font></strong><font
                face="Arial, sans-serif"><span lang="zxx">).<br>
                  <br>
                  If ISOC staff considers financial </span></font><em><font
                  face="Arial, sans-serif"><span lang="zxx">“local
                    self-sufficiency [...] always be a key component of
                    any operations resource strategy”</span></font></em><font
                face="Arial, sans-serif"><span lang="zxx"> we are out
                  for the time being.<br>
                  <br>
                  One comment on the Chapter list had said there is no
                  need for us to defend ourselves – ISOC staff may have
                  to defend themselves instead. We leave this open – but
                  if anybody is interested in our context, you may find
                  some more information about local contributions at the
                  Annex at the end of our Documentation to be sent out
                  separately. </span></font><font face="Arial,
                sans-serif"><span lang="zxx">This material – voices from
                  the Chapters - may be of value for the work following
                  a recent ISOC Board decision that “</span></font><font
                face="Arial, sans-serif"><font size="3"><span lang="zxx">acknowledged

                    the right of Chapters to form an advisory group.”</span></font></font><font
                face="Arial, sans-serif"><span lang="zxx"><br>
                  <br>
                </span></font><em><font face="Arial, sans-serif"><span
                    lang="zxx"><b>3.</b> We once again call upon the
                    Cambodia Chapter to a) participate with ISOC staff
                    in a conference call to speak forthrightly about the
                    issues you raise, b) participate in the regularly
                    scheduled Asia Chapter Webex calls in which most
                    other Asia chapters are now participating.
                     Regarding, a) above, we have noted your concern
                    that many Cambodia Chapter officers cannot attend a
                    call at one time for work-related and other
                    obligations.  We are very willing to have multiple
                    calls to accommodate various schedules and to be
                    held at times that allow as many officers to attend
                    as possible.<br>
                  </span></font></em><font face="Arial, sans-serif"><span
                  lang="zxx"><br>
                  We did not participate lately in such conference calls
                  or webinars as our experience over the years is that
                  such talks did not lead to much results. Especially
                  multiple sessions on the same subject ended up with
                  open questions: </span></font><font face="Arial,
                sans-serif"><span lang="zxx">W</span></font><font
                face="Arial, sans-serif"><span lang="zxx">hat was really
                  discussed or decided? Email exchanges leave much
                  clearer records.<br>
                  <br>
                </span></font><em><font face="Arial, sans-serif"><span
                    lang="zxx">On another note, there is currently a
                    Chapter workshop in Bali ahead of the IGF. I hope
                    the Cambodian representative will take the
                    opportunity to speak to Naveed ul Haq, Chapter
                    Development Manager for Asia, Joyce Dogniez Director
                    of Chapter Development and Raj Singh our Regional
                    Bureau Director. Such a conversation presents an
                    additional opportunity to resolve timing conflicts
                    and help us all get to a resolution of the issues.<br>
                  </span></font></em><font face="Arial, sans-serif"><span
                  lang="zxx"><br>
                  Ted Mooney added: <br>
                  <br>
                </span></font><em><font face="Arial, sans-serif"><span
                    lang="zxx">“This is unfortunate as there is a travel
                    fellowship available for the each Asia Chapter to
                    attend in which expenses are covered. My assumption
                    was that surely you would take advantage of such
                    funding from ISOC particularly when your
                    representative would have a forum with ISOC
                    executives in which to discuss your specific issue.
                    Why did you chose not to attend?”<br>
                  </span></font></em><font face="Arial, sans-serif"><span
                  lang="zxx"><br>
                  The fact that intensive communication on the Chapter
                  list, with several calls from various Chapter leaders
                  calling on ISOC staff – central and regional – to
                  respond to the contents of our mail did not result in
                  such responses, was not an indication that to meet in
                  Bali would provide the practical and timely responses
                  we were hoping for. </span></font><font face="Arial,
                sans-serif"><span lang="zxx">W</span></font><font
                face="Arial, sans-serif"><span lang="zxx">e did not want
                  to ask for such </span></font><font face="Arial,
                sans-serif"><span lang="zxx">international </span></font><font
                face="Arial, sans-serif"><span lang="zxx">travel </span></font><font
                face="Arial, sans-serif"><span lang="zxx">support for
                  one person to talk to ISOC staff traveling to Bali to
                  talk about things for which the 90 ISOC staff and
                  advisors could not organize written responses in the
                  months and weeks before.</span></font><font
                face="Arial, sans-serif"><span lang="zxx"><br>
                  <br>
                  And finally, Ted Mooney said: <br>
                  <br>
                </span></font><em><font face="Arial, sans-serif"><span
                    lang="zxx">“Also, I think we needn't burden Chapter
                    Delegates with a lengthy and hopefully fruitful
                    conversation between us in email. I will no longer
                    be posting my responses to you to the entire list.” <br>
                  </span></font></em><font face="Arial, sans-serif"><span
                  lang="zxx"><br>
                  Here the ISOC Senior Director, Membership &
                  Services, is obviously not in line with the many
                  Chapter leaders who were interested and did actively
                  participate in the related discussions on the Chapters
                  list. As Ousmane MOUSSA TESSA from the Niger Chapter
                  wrote:</span></font></p>
            <p style="margin:0px;padding:0px 0px
10px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,Verdana,clean,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13px;line-height:18.1875px"><font
                face="Arial, sans-serif"><span lang="zxx"><br>
                </span></font><strong><font face="Arial, sans-serif"><span
                    lang="zxx">Hi all,<br>
                    +1 Veni! [Bulgaria]<br>
                    <br>
                    In my previous mail I tried to share a quiet simple
                    idea of the <br>
                    "ecosystem" of ISOC. Veni summarized what this
                    ecosystem must be. I'm just thinking it just a
                    global decentralized process, as Chapters don't be
                    considered as "subsidiaries" of company with an HQ
                    and Board of Trustees!<br>
                    <br>
                    BTW, I agree 200% with Veni about the fact, and
                    keeping in mind that "the strength of a chain is
                    based on the quality of its weakest link". <br>
                    Hence, let's support each other to move steadily and
                    forward a visible thread, so even the newcomers can
                    jump easy in one the various wagons of ISOC.<br>
                    <br>
                    Keep on talking, talking again, in the only aim to
                    ... to sharpen our current and future actions and
                    overcome inherent difficulties of our Global
                    "institution".<br>
                    <br>
                    All the best<br>
                    <br>
                    Ousmane<br>
                    Niger Chapter<br>
                  </span></font></strong><font face="Arial, sans-serif"><span
                  lang="zxx"><br>
                  We continue to share our communication.</span></font></p>
            <p style="margin:0px;padding:0px 0px
10px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,Verdana,clean,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13px;line-height:18.1875px"
              lang="zxx"> <br>
              <span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">We

                are committed to the “basic values” for which many
                persons around the world became members of the ISOC –
                and it is our assumption that many of our present
                Chapter members may want to continue to be members of
                ISOC, for which they had to sign up before being able to
                become members of a chapter.</span><br>
            </p>
            <p style="margin:0px;padding:0px 0px
10px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,Verdana,clean,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13px;line-height:18.1875px"
              lang="zxx"><font face="Arial, sans-serif">Probably there
                will also be an informal fellowship of “Friends of the
                Internet in Cambodia” - and there may be interest in the
                future to see how the recent decisions of the ISOC Board
                that<font size="3"> affirmed the role of chapters in the
                  governance and mission of the Internet Society will
                  work out, especially when a Chapters Advisory Group
                  will have done its work and hopefully the
                  clarification of the role and relation of staff and
                  chapters may lead to a new start of ISOC.</font></font></p>
            <p style="margin:0px;padding:0px 0px
10px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,Verdana,clean,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13px;line-height:18.1875px"><font
                face="Arial, sans-serif"><span lang="zxx"><br>
                </span></font><span
                style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Be
                Chantra</span><font face="Arial, sans-serif"><span
                  lang="zxx"><br>
                </span></font></p>
            <p style="margin:0px;padding:0px 0px
10px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,Verdana,clean,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13px;line-height:18.1875px"
              lang="zxx"><font face="Arial, sans-serif"><a
                  moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="mailto:chantra.be@gmail.com">chantra.be@gmail.com</a></font></p>
            <p style="margin:0px;padding:0px 0px
10px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,Verdana,clean,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13px;line-height:18.1875px"><font
                face="Arial, sans-serif"><span lang="zxx">(still)
                  Secretary of the </span><span lang="zxx">ISOC Cambodia
                  Chapter</span></font></p>
            <p style="margin:0px;padding:0px 0px
10px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,Verdana,clean,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13px;line-height:18.1875px"><font
                face="Arial, sans-serif"><span lang="zxx">until this
                  announcement is sent out.</span></font></p>
          </div>
        </div>
        <br>
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        <br>
        <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
Chapter Portal (AMS): <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://portal.isoc.org">https://portal.isoc.org</a></pre>
      </blockquote>
      <br>
      <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 

Best, 
Veni Markovski
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.veni.com">http://www.veni.com</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.facebook.com/venimarkovski">https://www.facebook.com/venimarkovski</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://twitter.com/veni">https://twitter.com/veni</a>

The opinions expressed above are those of the 
author, not of any organizations, associated 
with or related to him in any given way. </pre>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <br>
      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
Chapter Portal (AMS): <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://portal.isoc.org">https://portal.isoc.org</a></pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
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