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    <font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">You are right. The
      staffers are good people. I'd say - amazingly good people. <br>
      <br>
      What has happened (and none of us is a part of it, so we don't
      know all details) is a sad page in the ISOC history. The HQ has to
      look with more patience and attention in cross-cultural issues. I
      am sure the relevant staff would know what's going on, and
      hopefully someone at the BoT would ask the right questions, and
      find out.<br>
      <br>
      v. <br>
      <br>
      <br>
      <br>
      <br>
    </font>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 11/05/13 13:43, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:info@isoc.org.ec">info@isoc.org.ec</a>
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:3F8D9A86-C0F8-4D52-9533-E73D5B339049@isoc.org.ec"
      type="cite">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;
        charset=ISO-8859-1">
      <div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;">Sorry my email was
        incomplete. Here the complete version</div>
      <div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><br>
      </div>
      <div><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
          background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Maybe the problem
          is not staff by guidelines and policies they follow. <br>
          <br>
          Sometimes we look for actions where there is no option to act,</span></div>
      <div><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
          background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br>
        </span></div>
      <div><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;">So we must work
          on policies, resources and responsibilities and the ask staff
          to follow</span></div>
      <div><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><br>
        </span></div>
      <div><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;">Staff are
          employees they do their work. Am I right?</span></div>
      <div><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><br>
        </span></div>
      <div><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;">Carlos Vera</span></div>
      <div><br>
        <div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;">Internet Society
          Ecuador</div>
        <div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><a
            moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.isoc.org.ec">www.isoc.org.ec</a></div>
        <span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;">Síguenos @isocec</span></div>
      <div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><br>
        El 05/11/2013, a las 12:57, Ted Mooney <<a
          moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:mooney@isoc.org">mooney@isoc.org</a>>
        escribió:<br>
        <br>
      </div>
      <blockquote type="cite" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;">
        <div>
          <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
            charset=ISO-8859-1">
          <div>I think it is important to say here that all of
             Membership & Services staff are quite saddened by the
            decision of the ISOC Cambodia Chapter to dissociate from The
            Internet Society.  I see there are many who take the view
            that Chapters are treated with indifference or worse by ISOC
            staff, yet others have found Staff to be not only helpful,
            but enthusiastic in their support for chapters and the
            opportunities to overcome obstacles together.  Why is this?</div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>I'm aware of a number of such opportunities for the
            Cambodia Chapter and ISOC to look together at solutions.
             That none of these were satisfactory is very unfortunate.
             It may be that when a single solution is all that will be
            accommodated, it is difficult to arrive at a win-win.  </div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>I am personally amazed at how much chapters are able to
            accomplish and how much good they do for the Internet as we
            all want it to progress.  And the Internet Society is
            absolutely unique in its contributions to research,
            technical advocacy, policy development, coalition building
            and community support.  Which must be why, despite the many
            voiced misgivings, you all remain members, leaders and team
            mates.  Please do not stop now.</div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>Changes are coming as we all know.  Some sooner rather
            than later.  I've voiced my optimism for the work of the
            Chapter Administrative support Working Group as well as the
            Chapter Advisory Council all led by Chapter leaders and
            supported by ISOC Staff.  It is also clear that there are
            constraints of framework, culture and infrastructure not
            only from region to region but from country to country that
            we acknowledge and seek to address head-on with flexible and
            multifaceted solutions. </div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>I agree there has been enough talk.  Actions must follow
            - good faith action from each and everyone of us.</div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>Respectfully,</div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>
            <div>
              <div>Ted Mooney</div>
              <div>Senior Director, Membership & Services</div>
              <div>The Internet Society</div>
              <div>1775 Wiehle Avenue</div>
              <div>Reston, VA 20190 USA</div>
              <div>Office: +1 703-439-2774</div>
              <div>Cell: +1 301-980-6446</div>
              <div>eMail: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="mailto:mooney@isoc.org">mooney@isoc.org</a></div>
            </div>
          </div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <span id="OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
            <div style="font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt;
              text-align:left; color:black; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none;
              BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in;
              PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df
              1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
              <span style="font-weight:bold">From: </span>Talha Habib
              <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="mailto:tali2leo@gmail.com">tali2leo@gmail.com</a>><br>
              <span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Tuesday,
              November 5, 2013 1:14 PM<br>
              <span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span>Glenn McKnight
              <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="mailto:contact@internetsociety.ca">contact@internetsociety.ca</a>><br>
              <span style="font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>ISOC Chapter
              Delegates <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="mailto:chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org">chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org</a>><br>
              <span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re:
              [Chapter-delegates] Trustees! not staff! Re: Announcement
              about the dissolution of ISOC-KH<br>
            </div>
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div>
              <div>
                <p dir="ltr">+1 Glenn</p>
                <p dir="ltr">Thank you<br>
                  --<br>
                  Warm Regards,<br>
                  Talha Habib</p>
                <p dir="ltr">* Sent from Galaxy Note</p>
                <div class="gmail_quote">On Nov 5, 2013 8:53 PM, "Glenn
                  McKnight" <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:contact@internetsociety.ca">contact@internetsociety.ca</a>>
                  wrote:<br type="attribution">
                  <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
                    .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                    <div dir="ltr">Hi All
                      <div>It's interesting reading this forum how  many
                        of the writers  are dissatisified with the staff
                        performance and in particular with the  Chapter
                         MOU. </div>
                      <div><br>
                      </div>
                      <div>Perhaps  we need to do some metrics and have
                        a survey completed by an independent group to
                        everyone on the performance of ISOC  from Top to
                        Bottom.   </div>
                      <div><br>
                      </div>
                      <div>Some of the poison pen stuff and finger
                        pointing isn't helpful and it's getting people's
                         backs up.  We should be working colloboratively
                        and building a positive spirit but  reading this
                        delegate list  it's  a bit disconcerting. </div>
                      <div><br>
                        Glenn</div>
                    </div>
                    <div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all">
                      <div>Glenn McKnight<br>
                        Membership Outeach<br>
                        <div>ISOC Canada Chapter</div>
                        <div>skype gmcknight</div>
                        <div>"The Internet is for Everyone"</div>
                        <div><img moz-do-not-send="true"
src="mailbox:///C:/_work/mail/Drafts?number=325673&view=att&th=13d35e7c9f4238cb&attid=0.1&disp=thd&zw"><br>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                      <br>
                      <br>
                      <div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at
                        5:48 AM, Christian de Larrinaga <span dir="ltr">
                          <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="mailto:cdel@firsthand.net"
                            target="_blank">cdel@firsthand.net</a>></span>
                        wrote:<br>
                        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0
                          0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
                          solid;padding-left:1ex">
                          Actually I think it is the Trustees who need
                          to wake up and smell the<br>
                          coffee. We in part elect them. They are our
                          representatives.<br>
                          <br>
                          I am not clear what Trustees want to achieve
                          with a network of chapters<br>
                          as part of the new mission based ISOC
                          organisation. I hope Trustees will<br>
                          set out some thoughts and ideas for what they
                          want for chapters and set<br>
                          out a process including chapters directly to
                          establish a plan how that<br>
                          can be optimally implemented.<br>
                          <br>
                          The recent letter we all received had more
                          than an attitudinal tinge of<br>
                          "sign and shut up" about it which is not
                          helpful if you genuinely want<br>
                          partners around the world defining and
                          delivering your mission. It may<br>
                          be that the trustees want to act only through
                          the staff and see chapters<br>
                          as a way to spread the footprint to elect some
                          trustees and do some<br>
                          fringe activities convening local people. If
                          that is the case then make<br>
                          that clear please.<br>
                          <br>
                          I genuinely need to know what the trustees
                          want with chapters. I don't<br>
                          need the whole journey defined before
                          Christmas but it would be helpful<br>
                          to get sight of the first steps at least and a
                          vision for how "we" can<br>
                          define the journey, so by this time next year
                          there is clarity.<br>
                          <br>
                          Christian<br>
                          > David Solomonoff <mailto:<a
                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="mailto:president@isoc-ny.org"
                            target="_blank">president@isoc-ny.org</a>><br>
                          > 5 November 2013 03:12<br>
                          > This is tragic - both for Cambodia's
                          netizens (past, present and<br>
                          > future) and for ISOC.<br>
                          ><br>
                          > It will have long-term negative
                          consequences for the global<br>
                          > organization in ways that are hard to
                          anticipate. But first and<br>
                          > foremost will be the temptation for other
                          Chapters to dissolve or<br>
                          > dissociate whenever there is
                          disagreement.<br>
                          ><br>
                          > If other Chapters follow a similar path,
                          the credibility - and even<br>
                          > the viability - of ISOC will be severely
                          damaged.<br>
                          ><br>
                          > The ISOC staff who allowed this to happen
                          have made a grievous error.<br>
                          ><br>
                          > Sincerely,<br>
                          ><br>
                          > David<br>
                          ><br>
                          > On 11/03/2013 09:26 PM, Chantra Be wrote:<br>
                          ><br>
                          ><br>
                          > --<br>
                          > David Solomonoff, President<br>
                          > Internet Society of New York<br>
                          > <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="mailto:president@isoc-ny.org"
                            target="_blank">president@isoc-ny.org</a><br>
                          > <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="http://isoc-ny.org" target="_blank">isoc-ny.org</a><br>
                          >
                          _______________________________________________<br>
                          > As an Internet Society Chapter Officer
                          you are automatically subscribed<br>
                          > to this list, which is regularly
                          synchronized with the Internet Society<br>
                          > Chapter Portal (AMS): <a
                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="https://portal.isoc.org"
                            target="_blank">https://portal.isoc.org</a><br>
                          > Chantra Be <mailto:<a
                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="mailto:chantra.be@gmail.com"
                            target="_blank">chantra.be@gmail.com</a>><br>
                          > 4 November 2013 02:26<br>
                          ><br>
                          > *Dear All,*<br>
                          ><br>
                          > *On 26 October 2013, a meeting was held
                          according to Article XII of<br>
                          > the Bylaws of the Cambodian Chapter of
                          the Internet Society:*<br>
                          ><br>
                          > *Article XII. - Dissolution of the
                          Chapter*<br>
                          ><br>
                          > 1. Dissolution of this Chapter by consent
                          of the members shall consist<br>
                          > of unanimous agreement of all its
                          officers together with a majority<br>
                          > vote at a meeting which has been
                          publicized in advance to all members<br>
                          > of the Chapter for the purpose of taking
                          this vote.<br>
                          ><br>
                          > *2. Should this Chapter be dissolved, its
                          assets shall be transferred<br>
                          > to ISOC International Headquarters.*<br>
                          ><br>
                          ><br>
                          > The meeting had been called on 23
                          September 2013, stating:<br>
                          ><br>
                          ><br>
                          > “It is to propose – unless real and
                          practical alternatives are<br>
                          > identified within the following month –
                          to call a meeting of all<br>
                          > members of our Chapter for the purpose of
                          taking a vote to dissolve<br>
                          > the ISOC Cambodia Chapter.”<br>
                          ><br>
                          ><br>
                          > *The meeting decided to dissolve the ISOC
                          Cambodia Chapter; this<br>
                          > decision becomes effective after the
                          present Announcement will have<br>
                          > been sent out:*<br>
                          ><br>
                          >   * - to all members of the ISOC Cambodia
                          Chapter<br>
                          >   * - to the Chapter Delegates list of
                          ISOC<br>
                          >   * - to the Chairperson of the Board of
                          ISOC<br>
                          >   * - to the ISOC Senior Director,
                          Membership & Services (You had<br>
                          >     written: “If the Cambodian Chapter
                          wishes to rescind its ISOC<br>
                          >     chapter status, a letter so stating
                          to the APAC Chapter<br>
                          >     Development manager is sufficient” -
                          would you please forward it<br>
                          >     there – or also to other persons in
                          ISOC beyond the APAC office<br>
                          >     who might want to know.)<br>
                          ><br>
                          ><br>
                          > This decision was taken drawing together
                          the conclusions of the<br>
                          > correspondence with ISOC staff and ISOC
                          Chapter leaders: we appreciate<br>
                          > very much the many encouraging comments
                          from other Chapters, and we<br>
                          > regret that the expected correspondence
                          from ISOC staff – regional and<br>
                          > central – was late, or not forthcoming at
                          all, and not proposing real<br>
                          > and practical steps ahead.<br>
                          ><br>
                          ><br>
                          > *The following is to be more specific:*<br>
                          ><br>
                          > In response to the “Interim Information:
                          Serious considerations to<br>
                          > dissolve the Cambodia ISOC Chapter” which
                          wehad sent to you and to<br>
                          > ISOC Chapter leaders and ISOC staff on 16
                          Oct 2013, we received the<br>
                          > following response from Ted Mooney - ISOC
                          Senior Director, Membership<br>
                          > & Services – on 18 October 2013,
                          under the Subject line “Communication<br>
                          > and moving forward with the ISOC Cambodia
                          Chapter.”<br>
                          ><br>
                          > I quote /the mail from Ted Mooney here in
                          Italics/, to distinguish it<br>
                          > from comments from other Chapter leaders
                          and from our own side.<br>
                          ><br>
                          > /Dear Chantra Be,<br>
                          ><br>
                          > I've followed with great interest the
                          responses from Norbert Klein on<br>
                          > the Chapter Delegates e-list. I want you
                          to know that I and many of us<br>
                          > at ISOC have thoroughly read your
                          original email more than once and<br>
                          > the subsequent messages from Mr. Klein. I
                          have researched the claims<br>
                          > made regarding the correspondences
                          between ISOC Staff and the<br>
                          > Cambodian Chapter and the outreach
                          attempts made on both sides. It is<br>
                          > evident that Staff has a different
                          interpretation of the data than has<br>
                          > the Chapter. It is, in my opinion
                          therefore, not constructive to dwell<br>
                          > on the past but to address the issues
                          raised in your message, once again.<br>
                          > /<br>
                          > Ted Mooney refers again to outreach
                          attempts supposedly made by ISOC<br>
                          > staff.<br>
                          ><br>
                          > This is not the first time such claims
                          are made, and therefore we had<br>
                          > responded:<br>
                          ><br>
                          > - We do not know “what has been
                          communicated to” the ISOC Senior<br>
                          > Director, Membership & Services in
                          this respect – but the situation<br>
                          > continues: neither the Singapore based
                          ISOC ASIA PACIFIC staff, nor<br>
                          > the ISOC Chapter Development Manager,
                          Asia-Pacific, nor the ISOC<br>
                          > Senior Director, Membership &
                          Services have responded to the detailed<br>
                          > content in the mail from our Secretary...<br>
                          > *- But if such mail was sent and we did
                          not receive it for whatever<br>
                          > reason – it would be appropriate to share
                          it here on the Chapters list.*<br>
                          ><br>
                          >   * *<br>
                          >     *<br>
                          >   * *Instead of using this opportunity to
                          provide copies of such mail,<br>
                          >     we received again just the same
                          baseless claims.*<br>
                          ><br>
                          ><br>
                          > More serious is that he says /“It is, in
                          my opinion therefore, not<br>
                          > constructive to dwell on the past.”/- He
                          had criticized our sharing of<br>
                          > concerns about the non-responsiveness of
                          ISOC staff with other<br>
                          > Chapters and the Chairperson of the ISOC
                          Boardto be unprofessional. He<br>
                          > is continuing to refuse to deal with
                          serious problems. I repeat again<br>
                          > our mail which related to one of the two
                          staff at the Asia Pacific<br>
                          > Regional Office:<br>
                          ><br>
                          > = = =<br>
                          ><br>
                          > *“ Dear Thip,<br>
                          > **After having received your mail,
                          rejecting our request to serious<br>
                          > discuss the crisis for our Chapter,
                          created as a result of the general<br>
                          > situation and legal requirements in
                          Cambodia in the meeting, and the<br>
                          > refusal to ISOC staff to positively pay
                          attention to our situation, we<br>
                          > do not think it would be appropriate to
                          cooperate, as a Chapter, with<br>
                          > organizing a meeting for your 1 - 2.5
                          hours event, for which you would<br>
                          > like to invite the Members of the
                          Cambodia Chapter and other<br>
                          > non-Chapter members. To discuss
                          fundamental problems within ISOC,<br>
                          > affecting the whole membership, only
                          among officers, as you suggest<br>
                          > (which has been tried in vain by email so
                          far) would not be in line<br>
                          > with our history to promote and practice
                          open communication – high<br>
                          > values regularly lifted up among the
                          goals of the Internet Society<br>
                          > world wide and in its slogan: the
                          Internet is for everyone.**<br>
                          ><br>
                          > The situation and this response has been
                          shared and discussed with the<br>
                          > Members of the Advisory Board of our
                          Chapter and is unanimously supported.<br>
                          ><br>
                          > Norbert Klein<br>
                          > President, ISOC-KH<br>
                          ><br>
                          > *The five members of our Advisory Board
                          at that time were (reflecting<br>
                          > the stipulation of our Bylaws “The
                          Advisory Board of five members,<br>
                          > from important sections of the ISOC
                          Cambodia Chapter membership”):<br>
                          ><br>
                          > - the Head of the IT in Education Section
                          in the Ministry of Education<br>
                          > - the Editor in Chief of a leading
                          Cambodian daily newspaper, who is<br>
                          > at the same time President of the Club of
                          Cambodian Journalists<br>
                          > - the President and CEO of a major
                          broadband providing ISP<br>
                          > - a senior staff member in the office of
                          the Council of Ministers of<br>
                          > the Government of Cambodia, and<br>
                          > - one student.<br>
                          ><br>
                          > = = =<br>
                          ><br>
                          > We do not have much confidence in
                          regional and central staff of ISOC<br>
                          > that has damaged the formerly good name
                          of ISOC in Cambodian society,<br>
                          > and no word is seen from them to
                          apologize publicly or to rectify this<br>
                          > – but instead it is considered that we
                          are unprofessional to raise<br>
                          > such unsolved problems. We do not think
                          it is acceptable that ISOC<br>
                          > staff visits a country, refuses to
                          discuss the problems identified as<br>
                          > important by a Chapter, holds her own
                          meeting to which she invited<br>
                          > some people who said they did not know an
                          hour ago that ISOC exists –<br>
                          > and she encourages them to become members
                          and run for leadership in<br>
                          > the elections one month later. And senior
                          staff of ISOC just keeps silent.<br>
                          ><br>
                          > The Documentation Center of Cambodia - <a
                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="http://www.dccam.org" target="_blank">
                            www.dccam.org</a><br>
                          > <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="http://www.dccam.org" target="_blank">http://www.dccam.org</a>>
                          – has in every mail originating from themthe<br>
                          > sentence:<br>
                          ><br>
                          > *“...a society cannot know itself if it
                          does not have an accurate<br>
                          > memory of its own history.”*<br>
                          ><br>
                          > The Internet Society would do well to
                          consider this also for itself,<br>
                          > on its way into a better future.<br>
                          ><br>
                          ><br>
                          > Ted Mooney continues:<br>
                          ><br>
                          > /*1.* Chapter by-laws. From various
                          correspondences and information<br>
                          > sent to the Cambodia Chapter, including
                          examples of by-laws from other<br>
                          > chapters and stated flexibility to
                          address the local needs dating back<br>
                          > to 2011, I would like to re-iterate the
                          flexibility of the Chapter<br>
                          > By-laws template to assure that agreed
                          Chapter By-laws account for all<br>
                          > local laws and special circumstances with
                          respect to jurisdiction,<br>
                          > foreign affiliation and governance.<br>
                          > /<br>
                          > What he calls flexibility seems more to
                          be a situation of confusion in<br>
                          > ISOC operations. It is obvious from the
                          correspondence on the Chapters<br>
                          > list - that not all Chapters have been
                          made to accept what is now in<br>
                          > our Bylaws – but these problematic
                          elements continue to be on the ISOC<br>
                          > website as “mandatory” elements. And
                          while he informs us that we are<br>
                          > free to flexibly apply the Chapters
                          Bylaws template, at the same time<br>
                          > “Renewal Chapter Charter letters” are
                          going out to be signed and<br>
                          > returned by 15 December 2013, including
                          “chapter minimum standards”<br>
                          > stating that if a Chapter does not meet
                          "one or more" a process of<br>
                          > “rejuvenation” will be initiated.<br>
                          ><br>
                          > One Chapter chair commented: “Somehow I
                          miss all these in the ISOC<br>
                          > by-laws, but may be someone can enlighten
                          us?”<br>
                          ><br>
                          > There is obviously no clarity and broad
                          agreement with Chapters at<br>
                          > present about the content and role of
                          Chapter Bylaws, as some of the<br>
                          > Chapter Delegatesmails show – with
                          reference to a lot of time spent<br>
                          > for nothing in the past (*highlighting
                          added*in our quoting):<br>
                          ><br>
                          > *-------- Original Message -------- *<br>
                          ><br>
                          > *Subject: Re: [Chapter-delegates] Fwd:
                          Renewal Internet Society<br>
                          > Chapter Charter<br>
                          > Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2013 15:44:09 +0200<br>
                          > From: Klaus Birkenbihl <<a
                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="mailto:Klaus.Birkenbihl@Isoc.de">Klaus.Birkenbihl@Isoc.de</a>><br>
                          > Organization: Internet Society German
                          Chapter e.V. (<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="http://ISOC.DE" target="_blank">ISOC.DE</a><br>
                          > <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="http://ISOC.DE" target="_blank">http://ISOC.DE</a>>)<br>
                          > To: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="mailto:chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org"
                            target="_blank">chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org</a><br>
                          > <mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="mailto:chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org"
                            target="_blank">chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org</a>><br>
                          > <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="mailto:chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org"
                            target="_blank">chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org</a><br>
                          > <mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="mailto:chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org"
                            target="_blank">chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org</a>>><br>
                          ><br>
                          ><br>
                          > ...I also don't foresee much change in
                          practice if we sign the letter.<br>
                          > Nevertheless it is the wrong thing at the
                          wrong time. During the last<br>
                          > years when chapters became more visible
                          and active we discussed so<br>
                          > many beautiful things that could give
                          support and help to be more<br>
                          > effective. E.g. Issue Trackers to
                          identify issues and track their<br>
                          > resolution, Wikis to support
                          collaboration and many other things the<br>
                          > Internet holds that other groups use to
                          do better work. So next thing<br>
                          > we expected to see was some progress
                          here.<br>
                          ><br>
                          > But instead of picking up e.g. the
                          prototype that was provided by<br>
                          > Elena, we still lack reporting facilities
                          for projects and problems,<br>
                          > collaboration tools, we stick to the old
                          work-intensive AMS to<br>
                          > exchange our member data … But what we
                          get is another version of the<br>
                          > Letter of Affiliation.<br>
                          ><br>
                          > Please keep in mind: it is effort, money
                          and time that is provided by<br>
                          > chapters members that is used to do the
                          work.<br>
                          ><br>
                          > Financial support by ISOC is rather
                          marginal. (Did you e.g ever manage<br>
                          > to organize an event for $2000? For our
                          last event even the fee for<br>
                          > the room was higher.) Knowing that ISOC
                          lacks the budget to pay them,<br>
                          > chapters - though complaining once and a
                          while - continue to work on<br>
                          > this base.<br>
                          ><br>
                          > The Letter of Association says ISOC wants
                          you to perform such and<br>
                          > such, wants to define a maximum number of
                          terms for office holders [is<br>
                          > this really a mission related concern?],
                          and you need ["we believe in<br>
                          > numbers"] to have that many individual
                          members, [can it be summed-up<br>
                          > with corporations? - AMS still don't let
                          me report corporate members]<br>
                          > and so forth. Read this while keeping in
                          mind that its chapters time,<br>
                          > chapters money, chapters effort. Doesn't
                          it annoy you?<br>
                          ><br>
                          > I don't say we should be against the
                          Letters of Association but given<br>
                          > the situation as it is - they should be
                          the result of negotiations and<br>
                          > not a headquarters dictatorship.<br>
                          ><br>
                          > Maybe the newly to be created Chapters
                          Advisory would be the group to<br>
                          > develop a template that fulfills 2
                          criteria:<br>
                          ><br>
                          > - it is balanced in terms of
                          responsibility and control, benefit and<br>
                          > achievements<br>
                          > - it allow**s**to be adjusted to needs of
                          individual chapters (e.g.<br>
                          > those with a commercial branch, or with
                          corporate members, or with a<br>
                          > special focus like accessibility ...)<br>
                          ><br>
                          > Such Letter of Association could have a
                          real effect.<br>
                          ><br>
                          > Klaus*<br>
                          ><br>
                          > *=*<br>
                          ><br>
                          > /*2.* The Chapter Administrative Support
                          Working Group is now meeting<br>
                          > regularly to discuss various ways to
                          address Chapter issues regarding<br>
                          > operational resources. As you have noted
                          from the discussion in this<br>
                          > email forum, there is a wide disparity of
                          views and therefore,<br>
                          > multiple solutions may be piloted.<br>
                          ><br>
                          > It is regrettable that this has not come
                          together as quickly as the<br>
                          > Cambodia Chapter has needed, so we hope
                          that you will reconsider your<br>
                          > voluntary de-chartering until there are
                          more widely available support<br>
                          > options for you to evaluate. Please do
                          keep in mind that local<br>
                          > self-sufficiency will always be a key
                          component of any operations<br>
                          > resource strategy.<br>
                          > /<br>
                          > While local self-sufficiency is a broadly
                          understandable principle,<br>
                          > the way this issue has been treated so
                          far seems to have seen this as<br>
                          > a financial affair. We have not seen
                          response to the much more complex<br>
                          > situation, where many people in Cambodia
                          have, over the years and<br>
                          > again recently, been self-sufficient in
                          providing their energy, their<br>
                          > health, their freedom, and in some cases
                          their lives in the struggle<br>
                          > for justice and in the struggle to be
                          free to communicate about it.<br>
                          > Alot of public support, legal assistance,
                          and care for victims, is<br>
                          > however not based on local finances, but
                          is provided by organizations<br>
                          > and institutions extending external
                          solidarity funding support.<br>
                          ><br>
                          > We have shared information that
                          communication technology and<br>
                          > information networks are fairly well
                          developed in Cambodia and there<br>
                          > are working groups, regular activities,
                          IXPs, organized structures,<br>
                          > Barcamps (the most recent one a week ago
                          with more than 2000<br>
                          > participants)– quite a number of the ISOC
                          Cambodia Chapter members<br>
                          > provided leadership in these fields. Our
                          inquiry if ISOC could<br>
                          > financially assist in setting up and
                          initially operating an office was<br>
                          > clearly related to the specific
                          government regulations (*following the<br>
                          > ISOC staff guided Bylaw: “The Chapter
                          shall be established as a<br>
                          > non-profit organization under the laws of
                          Cambodia”*).<br>
                          ><br>
                          > If ISOC staff considers financial /“local
                          self-sufficiency [...]<br>
                          > always be a key component of any
                          operations resource strategy”/we are<br>
                          > out for the time being.<br>
                          ><br>
                          > One comment on the Chapter list had said
                          there is no need for us to<br>
                          > defend ourselves – ISOC staff may have to
                          defend themselves instead.<br>
                          > We leave this open – but if anybody is
                          interested in our context, you<br>
                          > may find some more information about
                          local contributions at the Annex<br>
                          > at the end of our Documentation to be
                          sent out separately. This<br>
                          > material – voices from the Chapters - may
                          be of value for the work<br>
                          > following a recent ISOC Board decision
                          that “acknowledged the right of<br>
                          > Chapters to form an advisory group.”<br>
                          ><br>
                          > /*3.* We once again call upon the
                          Cambodia Chapter to a) participate<br>
                          > with ISOC staff in a conference call to
                          speak forthrightly about the<br>
                          > issues you raise, b) participate in the
                          regularly scheduled Asia<br>
                          > Chapter Webex calls in which most other
                          Asia chapters are now<br>
                          > participating. Regarding, a) above, we
                          have noted your concern that<br>
                          > many Cambodia Chapter officers cannot
                          attend a call at one time for<br>
                          > work-related and other obligations. We
                          are very willing to have<br>
                          > multiple calls to accommodate various
                          schedules and to be held at<br>
                          > times that allow as many officers to
                          attend as possible.<br>
                          > /<br>
                          > We did not participate lately in such
                          conference calls or webinars as<br>
                          > our experience over the years is that
                          such talks did not lead to much<br>
                          > results. Especially multiple sessions on
                          the same subject ended up<br>
                          > with open questions: What was really
                          discussed or decided? Email<br>
                          > exchanges leave much clearer records.<br>
                          ><br>
                          > /On another note, there is currently a
                          Chapter workshop in Bali ahead<br>
                          > of the IGF. I hope the Cambodian
                          representative will take the<br>
                          > opportunity to speak to Naveed ul Haq,
                          Chapter Development Manager for<br>
                          > Asia, Joyce Dogniez Director of Chapter
                          Development and Raj Singh our<br>
                          > Regional Bureau Director. Such a
                          conversation presents an additional<br>
                          > opportunity to resolve timing conflicts
                          and help us all get to a<br>
                          > resolution of the issues.<br>
                          > /<br>
                          > Ted Mooney added:<br>
                          ><br>
                          > /“This is unfortunate as there is a
                          travel fellowship available for<br>
                          > the each Asia Chapter to attend in which
                          expenses are covered. My<br>
                          > assumption was that surely you would take
                          advantage of such funding<br>
                          > from ISOC particularly when your
                          representative would have a forum<br>
                          > with ISOC executives in which to discuss
                          your specific issue. Why did<br>
                          > you chose not to attend?”<br>
                          > /<br>
                          > The fact that intensive communication on
                          the Chapter list, with<br>
                          > several calls from various Chapter
                          leaders calling on ISOC staff –<br>
                          > central and regional – to respond to the
                          contents of our mail did not<br>
                          > result in such responses, was not an
                          indication that to meet in Bali<br>
                          > would provide the practical and timely
                          responses we were hoping for.<br>
                          > We did not want to ask for such
                          international travel support for one<br>
                          > person to talk to ISOC staff traveling to
                          Bali to talk about things<br>
                          > for which the 90 ISOC staff and advisors
                          could not organize written<br>
                          > responses in the months and weeks before.<br>
                          ><br>
                          > And finally, Ted Mooney said:<br>
                          ><br>
                          > /“Also, I think we needn't burden Chapter
                          Delegates with a lengthy and<br>
                          > hopefully fruitful conversation between
                          us in email. I will no longer<br>
                          > be posting my responses to you to the
                          entire list.”<br>
                          > /<br>
                          > Here the ISOC Senior Director, Membership
                          & Services, is obviously not<br>
                          > in line with the many Chapter leaders who
                          were interested and did<br>
                          > actively participate in the related
                          discussions on the Chapters list.<br>
                          > As Ousmane MOUSSA TESSA from the Niger
                          Chapter wrote:<br>
                          ><br>
                          ><br>
                          > *Hi all,<br>
                          > +1 Veni! [Bulgaria]<br>
                          ><br>
                          > In my previous mail I tried to share a
                          quiet simple idea of the<br>
                          > "ecosystem" of ISOC. Veni summarized what
                          this ecosystem must be. I'm<br>
                          > just thinking it just a global
                          decentralized process, as Chapters<br>
                          > don't be considered as "subsidiaries" of
                          company with an HQ and Board<br>
                          > of Trustees!<br>
                          ><br>
                          > BTW, I agree 200% with Veni about the
                          fact, and keeping in mind that<br>
                          > "the strength of a chain is based on the
                          quality of its weakest link".<br>
                          > Hence, let's support each other to move
                          steadily and forward a visible<br>
                          > thread, so even the newcomers can jump
                          easy in one the various wagons<br>
                          > of ISOC.<br>
                          ><br>
                          > Keep on talking, talking again, in the
                          only aim to ... to sharpen our<br>
                          > current and future actions and overcome
                          inherent difficulties of our<br>
                          > Global "institution".<br>
                          ><br>
                          > All the best<br>
                          ><br>
                          > Ousmane<br>
                          > Niger Chapter<br>
                          > *<br>
                          > We continue to share our communication.<br>
                          ><br>
                          ><br>
                          > We are committed to the “basic values”
                          for which many persons around<br>
                          > the world became members of the ISOC –
                          and it is our assumption that<br>
                          > many of our present Chapter members may
                          want to continue to be members<br>
                          > of ISOC, for which they had to sign up
                          before being able to become<br>
                          > members of a chapter.<br>
                          ><br>
                          > Probably there will also be an informal
                          fellowship of “Friends of the<br>
                          > Internet in Cambodia” - and there may be
                          interest in the future to see<br>
                          > how the recent decisions of the ISOC
                          Board thataffirmed the role of<br>
                          > chapters in the governance and mission of
                          the Internet Society will<br>
                          > work out, especially when a Chapters
                          Advisory Group will have done its<br>
                          > work and hopefully the clarification of
                          the role and relation of staff<br>
                          > and chapters may lead to a new start of
                          ISOC.<br>
                          ><br>
                          ><br>
                          > Be Chantra<br>
                          ><br>
                          > <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="mailto:chantra.be@gmail.com"
                            target="_blank">chantra.be@gmail.com</a>
                          <mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="mailto:chantra.be@gmail.com"
                            target="_blank">chantra.be@gmail.com</a>><br>
                          ><br>
                          > (still) Secretary of the ISOC Cambodia
                          Chapter<br>
                          ><br>
                          > until this announcement is sent out.<br>
                          ><br>
                          >
                          _______________________________________________<br>
                          > As an Internet Society Chapter Officer
                          you are automatically subscribed<br>
                          > to this list, which is regularly
                          synchronized with the Internet Society<br>
                          > Chapter Portal (AMS): <a
                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="https://portal.isoc.org"
                            target="_blank">https://portal.isoc.org</a><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
                          As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are
                          automatically subscribed<br>
                          to this list, which is regularly synchronized
                          with the Internet Society<br>
                          Chapter Portal (AMS): <a
                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="https://portal.isoc.org"
                            target="_blank">https://portal.isoc.org</a><br>
                        </blockquote>
                      </div>
                      <br>
                    </div>
                    <br>
                    _______________________________________________<br>
                    As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are
                    automatically subscribed<br>
                    to this list, which is regularly synchronized with
                    the Internet Society<br>
                    Chapter Portal (AMS): <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="https://portal.isoc.org" target="_blank">https://portal.isoc.org</a><br>
                  </blockquote>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
          </span>
        </div>
      </blockquote>
      <blockquote type="cite" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;">
        <div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
          <span>As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are
            automatically subscribed</span><br>
          <span>to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the
            Internet Society</span><br>
          <span>Chapter Portal (AMS): <a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="https://portal.isoc.org">https://portal.isoc.org</a></span></div>
      </blockquote>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <br>
      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
Chapter Portal (AMS): <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://portal.isoc.org">https://portal.isoc.org</a></pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 

Best, 
Veni Markovski
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.veni.com">http://www.veni.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.facebook.com/venimarkovski">https://www.facebook.com/venimarkovski</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://twitter.com/veni">https://twitter.com/veni</a>

The opinions expressed above are those of the 
author, not of any organizations, associated 
with or related to him in any given way. </pre>
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