<div dir="ltr">The suggestion sounds a bit like the ICANN Secretariat/Support model for several of its ACs and SOs ... not sure if that is actually a good or bad thing<div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div>/t</div>
</div><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Sep 29, 2013 at 6:04 AM, Christian de Larrinaga <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:cdel@firsthand.net" target="_blank">cdel@firsthand.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Would it be fair to characterise the main points from this debate as<br>
Chapters must be independent from ISOC on the one hand and on the other<br>
Chapters must receive administrative financial funding from ISOC?<br>
<br>
I don't see how "direct" funding from ISOC to chapters for such basic<br>
local organisational requirements satisfies that description.<br>
There is an English expression "Who pays the piper plays the tune".<br>
<br>
What might work is for ISOC to establish a chapter secretariat service<br>
that allows chapters to outsource some routine basic administrative<br>
tasks in particular those that relate to their ISOC relationship and<br>
agenda building.<br>
<br>
This could be budgeted and valued in some way to be determined between<br>
ISOC and chapters. It could also potentially be managed regionally<br>
although local data protection and security laws would need to be taken<br>
into account.<br>
<br>
It could also be useful to provide access for chapters to a shared<br>
resource perhaps outsourced for expert marketing, event development and<br>
fund raising support. This could help build local self sustainability as<br>
well as guide and develop local skills in these tasks.<br>
<br>
Chapters could then be sure they are managing their own agenda and have<br>
their own administration but benefit from having access to a shared ISOC<br>
chapter secretariat available to outsource to. Some chapters might be<br>
sufficiently established that they can manage this basic level of<br>
administration internally without recourse to the secretariat. Others<br>
might benefit significantly.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Christian<br>
<div class="im"><br>
<br>
Veni Markovski wrote:<br>
> Elver, and all,<br>
> Replace Estonia with Bulgaria , and I can sign it.<br>
> Isoc-Bulgaria had several projects running at the same time, and we were<br>
> having paid staff (many here know Julia and Dessi /Dragoslava/), as well<br>
> as GOOD stuff to achieve, among which:<br>
> - Creative Commons inBulgarian<br>
> - changes in the Bulgarian telecom laws to become internet-friendly<br>
> - contributions to the ITU<br>
> - participation and reporting from ITU big events<br>
> - get rid of licenses and regulations of Internet services in the country<br>
> - using free and open source software for e-government<br>
> - etc<br>
><br>
> Isoc has contributed a tiny little fraction of our budget, and two years<br>
> ago, when we most needed support for fighting with the bad stuff at the<br>
> ITU, 3 chapters - Bulgaria, Poland and Armenia - asked for 7500 $. The<br>
> request was turned down because "it has been too international"<br>
> I rest my case.<br>
><br>
><br>
> On Sunday, September 29, 2013, Elver Loho wrote:<br>
><br>
> On 27 September 2013 16:05, Victor Ndonnang<br>
</div>> <<a href="mailto:ndonnang@nvconsulting.biz">ndonnang@nvconsulting.biz</a> <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',<br>
<div class="im">> '<a href="mailto:ndonnang@nvconsulting.biz">ndonnang@nvconsulting.biz</a>');>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> +1 Ted,____<br>
><br>
> __ __<br>
><br>
</div><div class="im">> I’m following with great attention this discussion initiated by<br>
> the Cambodian Chapter intention to leave the Internet society<br>
> Great family which lead to the old debate about ISOC’s direct<br>
> financial support to Chapters. Before I continue, I would like<br>
> to clearly express my opposition to that. For me, It is<br>
> important and better for ISOC HQ to empower Chapters rather than<br>
> giving them money. Chapters are not “national bureau” of the<br>
> Internet Society. ISOC Chapters and ISOC Global are partners who<br>
> share the same vision and the mission. The direct financial<br>
> support to Chapters for their administrative and running costs<br>
> will make the Chapters useless, dependent and non-sustainable.<br>
> If we put in place the systematic direct financial support from<br>
> ISOC HQ to Chapters, we will see many useless Chapters flourish<br>
> around the world only to benefit to that direct financial<br>
</div>> support. ____<br>
><br>
> __ __<br>
<div class="im">><br>
> The belonging to the ISOC great family comes with advantages but<br>
> also responsibilities. The Internet Society is already<br>
</div>> supporting and empowering Chapters in many ways:____<br>
><br>
> __- __The community Grants programme gives priority to<br>
> Chapters projects____<br>
><br>
> __- __The Event funding programme which helps to keep the<br>
> Chapter active each year____<br>
><br>
> __- __The Web presence support____<br>
><br>
> __- __The travel support ____<br>
><br>
> __- __Capacities Building and Leadership Program____<br>
><br>
> __- __International Handbook for Chapters____<br>
><br>
> __- __Management Tools ____<br>
><br>
> __- __Etc . You can<br>
<div><div class="h5">><br>
> The problem with all of these measures you have enumerated above is<br>
> that they require someone to actually sit down, type out<br>
> applications, organize the people, create a structure for them to<br>
> work in, and so forth. The problem with most NGOs and, I suspect,<br>
> with most Chapters is NOT that there aren't any sources of funding<br>
> available. The problem with most NGOs and, I suspect, with most<br>
> Chapters is that there isn't money to keep even a single person on<br>
> the payroll whose job it is to get that funding for all the<br>
> projects. To actually run things and organize.<br>
><br>
> We can have all the meetings we want and we can decide whatever, but<br>
> at some point someone actually needs to sit down and get things done.<br>
><br>
> This might sound like hyperbole, but steady funding from ISOC HQ to<br>
> keep one person on the payroll to run things would very likely be<br>
> *more* valuable than having access to five times more money as<br>
> community grants or travel support or event funding or whatever.<br>
> There's a huge amount of money available in all sorts of grants<br>
> programs all over the world. The problem isn't lack of project-based<br>
> money. The problem is lack of money for administrative and<br>
> organizational tasks. You're all talking about lack of funding, but<br>
> you seem to be missing the most important aspect: the kind of<br>
> funding that's actually needed.<br>
><br>
> Here in Estonia there's a ton of project-based money available, but<br>
> almost zero administrative funding. As a result there are NGOs where<br>
> people apply for funding everywhere and do all sorts of crazy and<br>
> ineffective and useless projects, which look good on paper, but are<br>
> a waste of time. Why? Because from each project they can extract the<br>
> 20% administrative overhead funding. And from that maybe a quarter<br>
> is used for things that actually need to get done. For things, which<br>
> are truly important. Which no funding committee really knows about<br>
> or understands. Essentially of project-based funds 5% is used to do<br>
> important things while 95% is wasted on ineffective and useless<br>
> [insert your favorite cussword].<br>
><br>
> Here in Estonia we could get money for doing conferences on<br>
> internet-related topics. We could get money for publishing. We could<br>
> get money to do media projects and online education. We might even<br>
> get money for doing some cool and innovative web service, which<br>
> nobody will use. Lots of funding available for all of that. And it's<br>
> all fairly ineffective and the results are hard to measure beyond<br>
> "we did X". So what is it that really needs to get done? In one<br>
> word: lobbying. Analysing pending legislation, going to meetings,<br>
> talking to politicians and civil servants. That's where the problems<br>
> are, that's where you get actual measurable results. Is there money<br>
> for this? Nope. Zero. No money whatsoever.<br>
><br>
> So in essence the problems are the following:<br>
><br>
> 1. You are funding the wrong things. If you want the world to change<br>
> for the better, then ISOC Chapters around the world need to be<br>
> effective at lobbying their governments to adopt all the fine<br>
> principles for which we joined ISOC in the first place. If we aren't<br>
> even capable of that, then why are we even here?<br>
><br>
> 2. You are funding things in the wrong way. There is no shortage<br>
> whatsoever of project-based funding in the world. The way you get<br>
> such funding is by keeping someone on the payroll who can get it.<br>
> That payroll requirement creates a barrier of entry, which most<br>
> Chapters are unable to get over. So they languish. And nothing gets<br>
> done. And people get angry and threaten to dissolve their Chapters.<br>
><br>
> We've had this discussion before. The problem is that as Chapter<br>
> leaders we are working on a voluntary basis (most of us, anyway),<br>
> and we need to get things done locally and in our workplace and so<br>
> forth. We are busy and we don't get paid to argue on this mailing<br>
> list. So if we say that we have a funding problem, then we get a<br>
> nicely worded reply from the ISOC HQ. And then we complain a bit<br>
> more, and we get another nicely worded reply from the ISOC HQ. Maybe<br>
> a meeting happens at the HQ and maybe someone proposes that someone<br>
> look into it and maybe even a committee is formed, or a working<br>
> group, where ideas go to silently die. And since we all, as Chapter<br>
> leaders, have more important things to do, we give up. We understand<br>
> that it's an uphill battle trying to argue with people who get paid<br>
> to argue. I've seen it way too many times trying to convince a<br>
> politician to do the right thing -- he or she gets paid and can run<br>
> you around in circles all day long while you gotta worry about where<br>
> your next paycheck comes from.<br>
><br>
> The Cambodian Chapter figured out how to turn the tables. By<br>
> threatening dissolution of their Chapter, they don't have to fight<br>
> anymore. Now it's the ISOC HQ that needs to find a solution and<br>
> needs to do it quickly. Maybe we all need to join the Cambodians out<br>
> of solidarity. After all, administrative funding is an issue for<br>
> most of us, if not all.<br>
><br>
><br>
> Best,<br>
> Elver<br>
> .ee<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
</div></div>> ____<br>
><br>
> __ __<br>
<div class="im">><br>
> Let come back to issue which brings this discussion live: Making<br>
</div>> ISOC Cambodia Chapter a legal entity in Cambodia. ____<br>
<div class="im">><br>
> I know how It is difficult to establish a non-profit<br>
> organization in many countries, especially in developing<br>
> countries. When I started the “re-formation” process of ISOC<br>
> Cameroon Chapter, I made that goal my N°1 priority and which the<br>
> help (time and money) of others founding members, we achieved<br>
> it. We had the choice at that time to legalize the Cameroon<br>
> Chapter as a NGO or Association. The process to become an NGO<br>
> was too complicated, so we choice to be registered as an<br>
> Association (a sort of small NGO). This is very important<br>
> because Chapters can only be respected locally and interact<br>
> freely with government, private sector and other groups when<br>
> they are registered as a legal entity by the local<br>
</div>> administrative authorities. ____<br>
<div class="im">><br>
> Based on that experience, I suggest to our Cambodia Chapter<br>
> colleagues to explore all alternatives of legal recognition in<br>
> their country. Be registered as a NGO is not the only way to<br>
> become a legal non-profit organization or entity, I hope this is<br>
</div>> true in Cambodia too. ____<br>
><br>
> __ __<br>
<div class="im">><br>
> When the Chapter is registered as a legal entity (NGO,<br>
> Association…) in its respective country, it can easily search or<br>
> apply to local funding opportunities (government grants, big<br>
> national corporates grants…). The formation an ISOC Chapter is a<br>
> process and Chapter founding members are aware during the<br>
> process that ISOC HQ will not be the only source of funding for<br>
> the Chapter (that’s why there is a mention about “Chapter<br>
> supporters” in the application form and means of funding the<br>
> draft By-Laws). Let’s search for others sources of funding and<br>
> thanks the ISOC HQ for all It is already offering us rather than<br>
</div>> fighting for something which will make us useless. ____<br>
><br>
> __ __<br>
><br>
> Sorry for the long email. ____<br>
><br>
> Best regards,____<br>
<div class="im HOEnZb">><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> Best,<br>
> Veni<br>
> <a href="http://veni.com" target="_blank">http://veni.com</a><br>
> <a href="https://facebook.com/venimarkovski" target="_blank">https://facebook.com/venimarkovski</a><br>
> <a href="https://twitter.com/veni" target="_blank">https://twitter.com/veni</a><br>
><br>
> ***<br>
> The opinions expressed above are those of<br>
> the author, not of any organizations,<br>
> associated with or related to him in<br>
> any given way.<br>
> ***<br>
><br>
><br>
> == Sent from my phone, so any spelling mistakes are caused by the<br>
> touchscreen keyboard.<br>
><br>
</div><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5">> _______________________________________________<br>
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div>