<div dir="ltr">On 27 September 2013 16:05, Victor Ndonnang <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ndonnang@nvconsulting.biz" target="_blank">ndonnang@nvconsulting.biz</a>></span> wrote:<br><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang="FR" link="blue" vlink="purple" style="word-wrap:break-word"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Optima","sans-serif";color:#44546a">+1 Ted,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Optima","sans-serif";color:#44546a"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Optima","sans-serif";color:#44546a">I’m following with great attention this discussion initiated by the Cambodian Chapter intention to leave the Internet society Great family which lead to the old debate about ISOC’s direct financial support to Chapters. Before I continue, I would like to clearly express my opposition to that. For me, It is important and better for ISOC HQ to empower Chapters rather than giving them money. Chapters are not “national bureau” of the Internet Society. ISOC Chapters and ISOC Global are partners who share the same vision and the mission. The direct financial support to Chapters for their administrative and running costs will make the Chapters useless, dependent and non-sustainable. If we put in place the systematic direct financial support from ISOC HQ to Chapters, we will see many useless Chapters flourish around the world only to benefit to that direct financial support. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Optima","sans-serif";color:#44546a"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Optima","sans-serif";color:#44546a">The belonging to the ISOC great family comes with advantages but also responsibilities. The Internet Society is already supporting and empowering Chapters in many ways:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><u></u><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Optima","sans-serif";color:#44546a"><span>-<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><u></u><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Optima","sans-serif";color:#44546a">The community Grants programme gives priority to Chapters projects<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><u></u><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Optima","sans-serif";color:#44546a"><span>-<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><u></u><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Optima","sans-serif";color:#44546a">The Event funding programme which helps to keep the Chapter active each year<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><u></u><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Optima","sans-serif";color:#44546a"><span>-<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><u></u><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Optima","sans-serif";color:#44546a">The Web presence support<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><u></u><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Optima","sans-serif";color:#44546a"><span>-<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><u></u><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Optima","sans-serif";color:#44546a">The travel support <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><u></u><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Optima","sans-serif";color:#44546a"><span>-<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><u></u><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Optima","sans-serif";color:#44546a">Capacities Building and Leadership Program<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><u></u><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Optima","sans-serif";color:#44546a"><span>-<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><u></u><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Optima","sans-serif";color:#44546a">International Handbook for Chapters<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><u></u><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Optima","sans-serif";color:#44546a"><span>-<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><u></u><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Optima","sans-serif";color:#44546a">Management Tools <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><u></u><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Optima","sans-serif";color:#44546a"><span>-<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><u></u><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Optima","sans-serif";color:#44546a">Etc . You can read more on : <a href="http://www.internetsociety.org/who-we-are/chapters/lead" target="_blank">http://www.internetsociety.org/who-we-are/chapters/lead</a> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Optima","sans-serif";color:#44546a">All those programs are ways of “indirect” financial support of ISOC to Chapters. Many will say it is not enough, but for me It is enough! Chapters should search for others sources of funding locally and International using the prestige and add-value of been part of ISOC. Chapters should think to create recurrent activities that can generate revenues and help them be independent financially and of course sustainable. I know Chapters are non-profit organization or group, but been non-profit do not means that we cannot generate revenues or sell our expertise (gained from ISOC and others Chapters) and services locally. For example, when we organize trainings, we can ask participants for small participation fees and this can help us overcome our administrative and running costs. But we can only do this in a sustainable way when we are registered as a legal entity in our respective country.</span></p>
</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>The problem with all of these measures you have enumerated above is that they require someone to actually sit down, type out applications, organize the people, create a structure for them to work in, and so forth. The problem with most NGOs and, I suspect, with most Chapters is NOT that there aren't any sources of funding available. The problem with most NGOs and, I suspect, with most Chapters is that there isn't money to keep even a single person on the payroll whose job it is to get that funding for all the projects. To actually run things and organize.</div>
<div><br></div><div>We can have all the meetings we want and we can decide whatever, but at some point someone actually needs to sit down and get things done.</div><div><br></div><div>This might sound like hyperbole, but steady funding from ISOC HQ to keep one person on the payroll to run things would very likely be *more* valuable than having access to five times more money as community grants or travel support or event funding or whatever. There's a huge amount of money available in all sorts of grants programs all over the world. The problem isn't lack of project-based money. The problem is lack of money for administrative and organizational tasks. You're all talking about lack of funding, but you seem to be missing the most important aspect: the kind of funding that's actually needed.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Here in Estonia there's a ton of project-based money available, but almost zero administrative funding. As a result there are NGOs where people apply for funding everywhere and do all sorts of crazy and ineffective and useless projects, which look good on paper, but are a waste of time. Why? Because from each project they can extract the 20% administrative overhead funding. And from that maybe a quarter is used for things that actually need to get done. For things, which are truly important. Which no funding committee really knows about or understands. Essentially of project-based funds 5% is used to do important things while 95% is wasted on ineffective and useless [insert your favorite cussword].</div>
<div><br></div><div>Here in Estonia we could get money for doing conferences on internet-related topics. We could get money for publishing. We could get money to do media projects and online education. We might even get money for doing some cool and innovative web service, which nobody will use. Lots of funding available for all of that. And it's all fairly ineffective and the results are hard to measure beyond "we did X". So what is it that really needs to get done? In one word: lobbying. Analysing pending legislation, going to meetings, talking to politicians and civil servants. That's where the problems are, that's where you get actual measurable results. Is there money for this? Nope. Zero. No money whatsoever.</div>
<div><br></div><div>So in essence the problems are the following:</div><div><br></div><div>1. You are funding the wrong things. If you want the world to change for the better, then ISOC Chapters around the world need to be effective at lobbying their governments to adopt all the fine principles for which we joined ISOC in the first place. If we aren't even capable of that, then why are we even here?</div>
<div><br></div><div>2. You are funding things in the wrong way. There is no shortage whatsoever of project-based funding in the world. The way you get such funding is by keeping someone on the payroll who can get it. That payroll requirement creates a barrier of entry, which most Chapters are unable to get over. So they languish. And nothing gets done. And people get angry and threaten to dissolve their Chapters.</div>
<div><br></div><div>We've had this discussion before. The problem is that as Chapter leaders we are working on a voluntary basis (most of us, anyway), and we need to get things done locally and in our workplace and so forth. We are busy and we don't get paid to argue on this mailing list. So if we say that we have a funding problem, then we get a nicely worded reply from the ISOC HQ. And then we complain a bit more, and we get another nicely worded reply from the ISOC HQ. Maybe a meeting happens at the HQ and maybe someone proposes that someone look into it and maybe even a committee is formed, or a working group, where ideas go to silently die. And since we all, as Chapter leaders, have more important things to do, we give up. We understand that it's an uphill battle trying to argue with people who get paid to argue. I've seen it way too many times trying to convince a politician to do the right thing -- he or she gets paid and can run you around in circles all day long while you gotta worry about where your next paycheck comes from.</div>
<div><br></div><div>The Cambodian Chapter figured out how to turn the tables. By threatening dissolution of their Chapter, they don't have to fight anymore. Now it's the ISOC HQ that needs to find a solution and needs to do it quickly. Maybe we all need to join the Cambodians out of solidarity. After all, administrative funding is an issue for most of us, if not all.</div>
<div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div>Elver</div><div>.ee</div><div><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang="FR" link="blue" vlink="purple" style="word-wrap:break-word">
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Optima","sans-serif";color:#44546a"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Optima","sans-serif";color:#44546a"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Optima","sans-serif";color:#44546a">Let come back to issue which brings this discussion live: Making ISOC Cambodia Chapter a legal entity in Cambodia. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Optima","sans-serif";color:#44546a">I know how It is difficult to establish a non-profit organization in many countries, especially in developing countries. When I started the “re-formation” process of ISOC Cameroon Chapter, I made that goal my N°1 priority and which the help (time and money) of others founding members, we achieved it. We had the choice at that time to legalize the Cameroon Chapter as a NGO or Association. The process to become an NGO was too complicated, so we choice to be registered as an Association (a sort of small NGO). This is very important because Chapters can only be respected locally and interact freely with government, private sector and other groups when they are registered as a legal entity by the local administrative authorities. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Optima","sans-serif";color:#44546a">Based on that experience, I suggest to our Cambodia Chapter colleagues to explore all alternatives of legal recognition in their country. Be registered as a NGO is not the only way to become a legal non-profit organization or entity, I hope this is true in Cambodia too. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Optima","sans-serif";color:#44546a"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Optima","sans-serif";color:#44546a">When the Chapter is registered as a legal entity (NGO, Association…) in its respective country, it can easily search or apply to local funding opportunities (government grants, big national corporates grants…). The formation an ISOC Chapter is a process and Chapter founding members are aware during the process that ISOC HQ will not be the only source of funding for the Chapter (that’s why there is a mention about “Chapter supporters” in the application form and means of funding the draft By-Laws). Let’s search for others sources of funding and thanks the ISOC HQ for all It is already offering us rather than fighting for something which will make us useless. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Optima","sans-serif";color:#44546a"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Optima","sans-serif";color:#44546a">Sorry for the long email. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Optima","sans-serif";color:#44546a">Best regards,<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Optima","sans-serif";color:#44546a">Victor Ndonnang<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Optima","sans-serif";color:#44546a"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Optima","sans-serif";color:#44546a"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">De :</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> <a href="mailto:chapter-delegates-bounces@elists.isoc.org" target="_blank">chapter-delegates-bounces@elists.isoc.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:chapter-delegates-bounces@elists.isoc.org" target="_blank">chapter-delegates-bounces@elists.isoc.org</a>] <b>De la part de</b> Ted Mooney<br>
<b>Envoyé :</b> jeudi 26 septembre 2013 17:10<br><b>À :</b> ISOC Chapter Delegates<br><b>Objet :</b> Re: [Chapter-delegates] Recent Correspondence from the Cambodian Chapter<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><div><div class="h5">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From my perspective these are all very good thoughts that have not only made me reconsider the way I speak to the community at large, but also how to move forward with a more productive dialog regarding administrative support for Chapters. There are quite rightfully, many different ideas how to proceed and as we all know, no single framework will be effective in all cases. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">The first full meeting of the Chapter Administrative Support Working Group (there have been conversations and emails pulling the group together and agreeing an agenda) will take place next week and there will be a report out to the chapter delegates regarding the outcome and next steps. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Grigori asked that someone address why direct financial support was not immediately forthcoming. The reason is that at this point, there isn't a sufficient amount of money to assure fairness or even success, no fully developed plan to assure buy-in or understand the impact, no measurement or funds-accounting mechanisms. However, I fully expect progress on all these fronts by the end of the year and beyond. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Let me also point out that a number of chapters have resolved these issues on their own from which many lessons can be learned. The autonomy of ISOC Chapters is a critical part of your overall effectiveness and ability to drive our mission locally. It comes with a high degree of self-determination and a degree of self-sufficiency which many of you have not only embraced, but insisted upon. I ask you to please put aside past resentments regarding the perception of ISOC as a "rich" organization when support of our global mission on so many fronts requires investment many times our capability. Senior leadership of the Internet Society supports constant vigilance and adjustment of our funding priorities to assure our communities are armed as best they can be to support the ISOC Global mission. These processes are neither quick nor simple. But your voices are heard and are having an impact, however glacial the speed of their implementation. In this light, I call upon the Cambodian Chapter once again, to reconsider it's decision to leave the Internet Society and work on a plan for the short and long term viability of our mission there.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">With great regards,<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Ted<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Ted Mooney<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Senior Director, Membership & Services<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">The Internet Society<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">1775 Wiehle Avenue<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Reston, VA 20190 USA<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Office: <a href="tel:%2B1%20703-439-2774" value="+17034392774" target="_blank">+1 703-439-2774</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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</div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">eMail: <a href="mailto:mooney@isoc.org" target="_blank">mooney@isoc.org</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From: </span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Shreedeep Rayamajhi <<a href="mailto:weaker41@gmail.com" target="_blank">weaker41@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Thursday, September 26, 2013 11:26 AM<br><b>To: </b>Eduardo Diaz <<a href="mailto:eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com" target="_blank">eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com</a>><br><b>Cc: </b>ISOC Chapter Delegates <<a href="mailto:chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org" target="_blank">chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Chapter-delegates] Recent Correspondence from the Cambodian Chapter<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div></div></div><div><div><div><div class="h5"><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">I meant to say the communication can differ from people and channel so it has be standardized and centralized accordingly, the confusion in between the can create problems <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div></div></div><div><div><div class="h5"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><br clear="all"><u></u><u></u></span></p><div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Cheers to Life <br>Shreedeep Rayamajhi<br>00977-9841374547(Nepal)<br>00977-9851049683(Nepal) <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">00977-9813900099<u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><a href="tel:%2B1%28301%29485-9395" value="+13014859395" target="_blank">+1(301)485-9395</a>(US)<br>
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</div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div></div>
<div><div><div class="h5"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 8:12 PM, Eduardo Diaz <<a href="mailto:eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com" target="_blank">eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Shreedeep: <u></u><u></u></span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Can you be so kind in explaining the meaning of the last sentence in your message? I can interpret it in many different ways.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Thanks<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">-ed<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">President<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">ISOC-Puerto Rico<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div><div><div class="h5"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 1:01 AM, Shreedeep Rayamajhi <<a href="mailto:weaker41@gmail.com" target="_blank">weaker41@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div></div><div><div><div class="h5"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Dear all<br><br>We all are proud to be part of the Internet society and to some extent it is our pride and prestige to say we are located through out the world. As said big powers come with bigger Responsibilities just like that we need to address the issue of Cambodian chapter by every possible means.It counts for every member that stand for change and with such situation ISOC can certainly help the chapter. Its not just about the rules and principle but on practical ground if there is a possibility from the ISOC headquarters then they should help because it makes a difference. <br>
<br>ISOC and its role model of economic independence can be understood and the pros and cons of funding a chapter is the part of the ISOC board or whom it may be concern but in reality if there is a possibility for the Cambodian chapter to help then ISOC should by all means.<br>
<br>I think the communication in between the chapters +chapter leaders+ISOC broad needs to be neutralized in every possible way. <u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><br clear="all">
<u></u><u></u></span></p><div><div><div class="h5"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Cheers to Life <br>Shreedeep Rayamajhi<br>
00977-9841374547(Nepal)<br>00977-9851049683(Nepal) <u></u><u></u></span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">00977-9813900099<br>
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shreedeep_Rayamajhi_(activist)" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shreedeep_Rayamajhi_(activist)</a><u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><a href="tel:%2B1%28301%29485-9395" target="_blank">+1(301)485-9395</a>(US)<br><a href="http://www.rayznews.com/" target="_blank"><span style="text-decoration:none"><b>Erreur ! Nom du fichier non spécifié.</b></span></a><br>
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</div><p></p></div></div><div><div class="h5"><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 9:28 AM, Eduard Tric <<a href="mailto:eduard.tric@isoc.ro" target="_blank">eduard.tric@isoc.ro</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">A few years ago , i had the opportunity to participate in a task force called "Isoc chapter of the future".<br>
One of the conclusions was that there has to be a balance between what HQ offer to the capters (direct financial support was barley mentioned , among other forms of support ) and what chapters should provide to HQ (some form of activity , or growth).<br>
If direct financial support is not an option, the "why" part should be explained in detail.<br>In that case , indirect support should be enhanced (raise community grants budget and leadership training for chapter key persons )<br>
Regards,<br>Ed<br><br>----- Mesaj original -----<br>De la: "Grigori Saghyan" <<a href="mailto:gregor@arminco.com" target="_blank">gregor@arminco.com</a>><br>Către: <a href="mailto:chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org" target="_blank">chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org</a><br>
Trimis: joi, 26 septembrie, 2013 3:07:04<br>Subiect: Re: [Chapter-delegates] Recent Correspondence from the Cambodian Chapter<u></u><u></u></span></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:35.4pt">
<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><br>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----<br>Hash: SHA1<br><br>Dear All,<br>from the formal point "chapter" is a part of one large structure. I<br>
think it is to have clearly defined relations between "Chapters" (or<br>local ISOC structures) and whom? I use "ISOC Global" term, but may be<br>"Management" or "HQ or "Board" is better? For each of proposed terms<br>
there is some uncertainty.<br><br>After Cambodian declaration it looks, that there only one real way to<br>draw attention to Chapter problems.<br><br>Btw, why it is such strong negative reaction for direct financial<br>
support? And as we see, there is an expression " The issue of the lack<br>of direct financial transfers is currently not among<br>the solutions the Internet Society can offer".<br><br> Here we see the author: it is the "Internet Society".<br>
Not the Board, not the staff, not the management, not ISOC Global,<br>but the "Internet Society"<br> Logically, I can understand, that as a Chapter, our Chapter was<br>involved in some kind of discussion on that point, there was a voting<br>
procedure, and such decision was approved by majority? But we do not<br>participated in such procedure.<br>On the the other hand, if the Chapter is real "chapter" - a part of a<br>large structure the "Internet Society" - it is not necessary to ask<br>
Chapter's opinion.<br><br>Clear definition of terms is one of the strongest requirements<br>everywhere, I think it is one of the most important points today for<br>ISOC community (also undefined term).<br><br><br><br>
Grigori Saghyan<br><a href="http://ISOC.AM" target="_blank">ISOC.AM</a><br><br><br><br><br><br>On 26.09.2013 0:19, Elver Loho wrote:<br>> Hi all,<br>><br>> I haven't kept up with this email list, but from what I can gather<br>
> the Cambodian Chapter wants to disassociate from ISOC due to lack<br>> of direct financial support for the basic running and operation of<br>> the Chapter.<br>><br>> I do not speak for my Chapter here, but personally I<br>
> wholeheartedly support this gesture. If this happens, then maybe,<br>> just maybe, ISOC senior staff will start taking the issue of<br>> providing support for Chapters around the world seriously.<br>><br>> Right now Chapters seem to exist more as a way for ISOC HQ to show<br>
> that they have support and members around the world. We're all<br>> providing a sort of legitimacy for the people at the HQ. Do we get<br>> something back for this? Sort of. I mean, maybe. To some degree.<br>
> Though here in Estonia very few people have heard of the Internet<br>> Society while our own local language brand carries a lot of<br>> weight. Your situation may be different.<br>><br>> Meanwhile we're battling with basic organizational issues, because<br>
> we can't even afford to keep up basic maintenance. At times we're<br>> even unable to reply to government's requests for comments on<br>> pending legislation, because we all have regular jobs or businesses<br>
> to run. This has to end. If what it takes is for one or more<br>> Chapters to secede from the union, then so be it. If the Cambodian<br>> Chapter goes through with this, I'm willing to put the question of<br>
> secession up for debate in our own Chapter.<br>><br>> I urge other Chapter leaders to consider the same.<br>><br>> Best, Elver .ee<br>><br>> <a href="mailto:elver.loho@gmail.com" target="_blank">elver.loho@gmail.com</a> <a href="tel:%2B372%205661%206933" target="_blank">+372 5661 6933</a> skype: elver.loho<br>
><br>><br>> On 25 September 2013 22:56, Dave Burstein <<a href="mailto:daveb@dslprime.com" target="_blank">daveb@dslprime.com</a>><br>> wrote:<br>>> Cambodian colleagues<br>>><br>>> I'm a board member in New York and respect your decision but urge<br>
>> you to keep working to resolve this. The board of ISOC is<br>>> strongly committed to working with chapters and directed staff to<br>>> improve things. If that's broken down here, as it seems, several<br>
>> board members are surely willing to help. They are dedicated,<br>>> committed people who make a point fo responding to ISOC chapter<br>>> members. I or a dozen others on this list can connect you if<br>
>> that makes things easier.<br>>><br>>> They are all strong and independent thinkers, most with a no<br>>> b______ attitude.<br>>><br>>><br>>> Ted<br>>><br>>> Thanks for addressing this; leaving it without response would<br>
>> have been painful. This is a crisis for the goverance model of<br>>> ISOC that needs to be resolved at the highest level. As you saw<br>>> from this list, a dozen other chapters think this crucial to<br>
>> solve.<br>>><br>>> But "The issue of the lack of direct financial transfers is<br>>> currently not among the solutions the Internet Society can offer"<br>>> doesn't seem to the point. Is there anything in the ISOC charter<br>
>> that makes this impossible? If so, please point to it and people<br>>> can bring it to the board.<br>>><br>>> "Can" is the word you used. I'm guessing this actually is an<br>>> administrative decision made by the senior staff, who can, if<br>
>> they choose, simply reverse the decision. Staff are constantly<br>>> making financial decisions an order of magnitude greater. If<br>>> staff feel they can't do this without board approval, that's easy<br>
>> to obtain if it's important to ISOC. As many of us know, most of<br>>> the board members are very accessible and dedicated to solving<br>>> ISOC problems if necessary.<br>>><br>>> "Should" ISOC provide the seed funding here, necessary to get the<br>
>> chapter started on the path to independence is the real question.<br>>> I'm sure there's a lot more here than the presumably modest sum<br>>> to share some office space. Likely, a shared or cheap office<br>
>> space that fits the legal requirements can be obtained for less<br>>> than the cost of sending one more talking head to IGF Bali.<br>>> Nothing wrong with IGF, but a slightly smaller ISOC delegation<br>
>> isn't a fatal wound.<br>>><br>>> I don't know enough to decide whether ISOC should do more here<br>>> and I'm sure there are major issues that haven't been discussed.<br>>><br>
>> So let's draw in Lynn, Walda or whomever else actually has the<br>>> power to make things happen and prevent a deep organizational<br>>> problem.<br>>><br>>> db<br>>><br>>><br>
>> On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 1:25 PM, Ted Mooney <<a href="mailto:mooney@isoc.org" target="_blank">mooney@isoc.org</a>><br>>> wrote:<br>>>><br>>>> To all Chapter Delegates<br>>>><br>
>>> ISOC Staff and, in particular, Membership and Services, are<br>>>> saddened by the recent decision and communication from the<br>>>> Cambodian Chapter regarding their desire to dissociate from the<br>
>>> Internet Society for administrative and other support concerns.<br>>>> I believe, however, there has been an unfortunate<br>>>> miscommunication. The Chapter Development and APAC staff have<br>
>>> reached out to the Cambodian Chapter on numerous occasions. As<br>>>> many of you know, our Chapter Development team has worked with<br>>>> other chapters to help address issues nearly identical to what<br>
>>> the Cambodian Chapter is experiencing. Our offer of<br>>>> collaboration remains.<br>>>><br>>>> The issue of the lack of direct financial transfers is<br>>>> currently not among the solutions the Internet Society can<br>
>>> offer. There are, nevertheless many other avenues to address<br>>>> the administrative support of the Chapter, which are both local<br>>>> and long term. Indeed Staff are working with Chapter<br>
>>> volunteers and have convened a new Chapter Administrative<br>>>> Support Working Group to address this issue broadly. We hope<br>>>> the Cambodian Chapter will reassess their position and<br>
>>> re-engage with ISOC staff as soon as possible. Our Chapter<br>>>> Development staff will reach out once again to the Cambodian<br>>>> Chapter officers.<br>>>><br>>>> Best regards,<br>
>>><br>>>> Ted Ted Mooney Senior Director, Membership & Services The<br>>>> Internet Society 1775 Wiehle Avenue Reston, VA 20190 USA<br>>>> Office: <a href="tel:%2B1%20703-439-2774" target="_blank">+1 703-439-2774</a> Cell: <a href="tel:%2B1%20301-980-6446" target="_blank">+1 301-980-6446</a> eMail:<br>
>>> <a href="mailto:mooney@isoc.org" target="_blank">mooney@isoc.org</a><br>>>><br>>>> _______________________________________________ As an Internet<br>>>> Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed to<br>
>>> this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet<br>>>> Society Chapter Portal (AMS): <a href="https://portal.isoc.org" target="_blank">https://portal.isoc.org</a><br>>><br>>><br>
>><br>>><br>>> -- Editor, Fast Net News, Net Policy News and A Wireless Cloud<br>>> Author with Jennie Bourne DSL (Wiley, 2002) and Web Video:<br>>> Making It Great, Getting It Noticed (Peachpit, 2008)<br>
>><br>>> _______________________________________________ As an Internet<br>>> Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed to this<br>>> list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society<br>
>> Chapter Portal (AMS): <a href="https://portal.isoc.org" target="_blank">https://portal.isoc.org</a><br>> _______________________________________________ As an Internet<br>> Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed to this<br>
> list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society<br>> Chapter Portal (AMS): <a href="https://portal.isoc.org" target="_blank">https://portal.isoc.org</a><br>><br><br><br>- --<br>Grigori Saghyan<br>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><br>_______________________________________________<br>As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed<br>to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society<br>
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</div></div></div></div></div></div><div><div class="h5"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><br>_______________________________________________<br>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">-- <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society<br>
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