<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><div><span>I totally agree with you Olu.</span></div><div> </div><div>Kolubahzizi T. Howard <br>Director of Strategy<br>Liberia Telecommunications Authority (LTA) and <br>Interim Chairman<br>Board of Trustees<br>Internet Society Liberia Chapter <br>+231-5-660001<br></div> <div style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir="ltr"> <hr size="1"> <font face="Arial" size="2"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Stephen O. Adams <olu@watelecom.com><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> 'John More' <morej1@mac.com>; veni@veni.com <br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Cc:</span></b> chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b>
Wednesday, May 8, 2013 6:52 AM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Chapter-delegates] ISOC Bylaws Working Group (BLWG)<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container"><br><div id="yiv8093172658">
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<div class="yiv8093172658MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri", "sans-serif";color:#1F497D;">Guys –</span></div>
<div class="yiv8093172658MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri", "sans-serif";color:#1F497D;"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv8093172658MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri", "sans-serif";color:#1F497D;">I will have to agree with the argument that sovereign laws in
countries other than America would prevent a unify or global Bylaw for all
organizations. The old notion that what is good for the west is good for all
other people must be forgotten. The running of any organization must take into
account the variation in culture practices as well as legal requirements for
each individual country. As members of a global organization, we will of course
be required to adhere to the core principle of the parent body and as such
adopt a bylaw that reflect the core values.</span></div>
<div class="yiv8093172658MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri", "sans-serif";color:#1F497D;"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv8093172658MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri", "sans-serif";color:#1F497D;">Regards,</span></div>
<div class="yiv8093172658MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri", "sans-serif";color:#1F497D;"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv8093172658MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri", "sans-serif";color:#1F497D;">Olu</span></div>
<div class="yiv8093172658MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri", "sans-serif";color:#1F497D;"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv8093172658MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri", "sans-serif";color:#1F497D;"> </span></div>
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<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;">
<div class="yiv8093172658MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma", "sans-serif";">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma", "sans-serif";">
chapter-delegates-bounces@elists.isoc.org
[mailto:chapter-delegates-bounces@elists.isoc.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>John
More<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 08, 2013 4:16 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> veni@veni.com<br>
<b>Cc:</b> chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Chapter-delegates] ISOC Bylaws Working Group (BLWG)</span></div>
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<div class="yiv8093172658MsoNormal"> </div>
<div class="yiv8093172658MsoNormal">Grigori</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8093172658MsoNormal"> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8093172658MsoNormal">I believe you are exalting form over function. Veni is
correct. There is no way the bylaws (or whatever other documentation is
involved in organizing a group) would "copy" ISOC's bylaws. The
question is what form the affiliation with ISOC can take under local law.
Naturally ISOC has the right to require some minimum for group to call itself
an ISOC Chapter. There are provisions that ISOC requires to be included in a
Chapter's bylaws or organization documents. I am not certain as to what
extent these are negotiable to comply with local conditions. In some instances,
presumably, the barriers to any such minimum requirements could be so great
that it would be impossible to create a Chapter in any form. </div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8093172658MsoNormal"> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8093172658MsoNormal">ISOC Bylaws define Chapters (taken from a version of the
Bylaws for discussion).</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8093172658MsoNormal"> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Palatino", "serif";">Internet
Society Chapters are groups organized by ISOC individual members (Article V)
who share an interest and belief in the Society’s principles and mission,
acting according to the Society’s standards of performance.</span><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Palatino", "serif";"> </span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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<div>
<div class="yiv8093172658MsoNormal">Nothing in here about the exact legal form such
"organized groups" must take.</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8093172658MsoNormal"> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8093172658MsoNormal">At least with respect to the DC Chapter, whose Bylaws I
drafted, there is no written requirement that members of the DC Chapter be
global members of ISOC. There is a requirement that we accept global
members who wish to join unless we have a good reason to reject them. We
were free to define who are members eligible to vote. I see no written
restriction requiring our members to be global members. Perhaps there is
something somewhere else in ISOC that has that requirement.</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8093172658MsoNormal"> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8093172658MsoNormal">Your Chapter is in existence and recognized, to the best of
my knowledge, so I am uncertain the reason for all your concern. But then
I have nit been party to any conversations you have had with the staff.</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8093172658MsoNormal"> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8093172658MsoNormal">If the DC Chapter were to take positions or actions contrary
to those of ISOC, we agree in our Bylaws that we would have no right to be a
ISOC Chapter. We would continue to exist as a legal entity. </div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8093172658MsoNormal"> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8093172658MsoNormal"><b>I note as always that I am not legal counsel to ISOC
(just to the DC Chapter) and I am not an insider as to the processes and
requirements for forming a Chapter otter than what I experienced in chartering
the DC Chapter.</b></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8093172658MsoNormal"> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8093172658MsoNormal">Perhaps others have had similar experiences as Grigori.
they should weigh in.</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8093172658MsoNormal"> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8093172658MsoNormal">John More</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8093172658MsoNormal"> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8093172658MsoNormal"> </div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8093172658MsoNormal">On May 7, 2013, at 9:00 PM, Veni Markovski <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:veni@veni.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:veni@veni.com">veni@veni.com</a>> wrote:</div>
</div>
<div class="yiv8093172658MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
</div>
<div class="yiv8093172658MsoNormal">Grigori,<br>
I think you are not right -<br>
every chapter has different by-laws from the ones of ISOC HQ. What you are
saying is impossible - there's no way for 100+ chapters to have by-laws copying
the ones of a US-based non-profit. It just doesn't work.<br>
The chapter is a temporary status, while ISOC.am is for long term. If tomorrow
ISOC HQ disappears, ISOC.am will continue to exist, and - hopefully! -
flourish. And vice versa.<br>
As for the members - again, your by-laws can figure out what to do with global
members, who don't pay membership fee to your chapter. Whether they pay to <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://isoc.org/">ISOC.org</a>, it doesn't concern you.<br>
<br>
v.<br>
<br>
On 05/07/2013 19:27, Grigori Saghyan wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<div class="yiv8093172658MsoNormal">Veni,<br>
it is impossible. Otherwise ISOC.AM will not be an ISOC Chapter -<br>
according to ISOC global bylaws. If we shall have our by laws, different<br>
form ISOC global bylaws, we shall be an independent structure, not ISOC<br>
Chapter. But we have our bylaws - according to the local law, and we do<br>
not ask for our members to register themselves in ISOC Global as a members.<br>
I think this contradiction is necessary to resolve.<br>
Grigori Sahyhan<br>
ISOC.AM<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 08.05.2013 2:46, Veni Markovski wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<div class="yiv8093172658MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;">That's up to you to figure it
out in your by-laws.<br>
<br>
On Tuesday, May 7, 2013, Grigori Saghyan wrote:<br>
<br>
Veni,<br>
if Chapters are independent, legal (or not), why
Chapter members at<br>
first, as a per-condition, have to register
themselves (or with local<br>
Chapter management assistance) on ISOC Global IMS as a
member ?<br>
Grigori Saghyan<br>
ISOC.AM <<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://isoc.am/">http://ISOC.AM</a>><br>
<br>
On 08.05.2013 2:27, Veni Markovski wrote:<br>
> Grisha,<br>
> That's an easy one: they are independent legal (or
not) bodies. They<br>
> can't be anything else.<br>
><br>
> On Tuesday, May 7, 2013, Grigori Saghyan wrote:<br>
><br>
> This a the main question
-who are ISOC Chapters?<br>
> Branches? Subsidiaries?
Daughter companies of ISOC Global?<br>
Something<br>
> flexible? Independent
organizations according to the local laws?<br>
> Grigori Saghyan<br>
> ISOC.AM <<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://isoc.am/">http://ISOC.AM</a>> <<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://isoc.am/">http://ISOC.AM</a>><br>
><br>
> On 08.05.2013 1:52,
Maureen Hilyard wrote:<br>
> > So how are we defined<br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> Grigori Saghyan<br>
> PGP Key ID: 0x48E4D5DC<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> Best,<br>
> Veni<br>
> <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://veni.com/">http://veni.com</a><br>
> <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="https://facebook.com/venimarkovski">https://facebook.com/venimarkovski</a><br>
> <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="https://twitter.com/veni">https://twitter.com/veni</a><br>
><br>
> ***<br>
> The opinions expressed above are those of<br>
> the author, not of any organizations,<br>
> associated with or related to him in<br>
> any given way.<br>
> ***<br>
><br>
><br>
> == Sent from my phone, so any spelling mistakes
are caused by the<br>
> touchscreen keyboard. That's a nice excuse, isn't
it;-)<br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
Grigori Saghyan<br>
PGP Key ID: 0x48E4D5DC<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Best,<br>
Veni<br>
<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://veni.com/">http://veni.com</a><br>
https://facebook.com/venimarkovski<br>
https://twitter.com/veni<br>
<br>
***<br>
The opinions expressed above are those of<br>
the author, not of any organizations,<br>
associated with or related to him in<br>
any given way.<br>
***<br>
<br>
<br>
== Sent from my phone, so any spelling mistakes are caused by the<br>
touchscreen keyboard. That's a nice excuse, isn't it;-)</div>
<div class="yiv8093172658MsoNormal"> </div>
<div class="yiv8093172658MsoNormal"><br>
-- <br>
<br>
Best,<br>
Veni Markovski<br>
<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.veni.com/">http://www.veni.com</a><br>
https://www.facebook.com/venimarkovski<br>
https://twitter.com/veni<br>
<br>
The opinions expressed above are those of the<br>
author, not of any organizations, associated<br>
with or related to him in any given way.<br>
<br>
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