<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">No one has ever accused ISOC of being quick to shoot. However, we also are known for being deliberate.<div><br></div><div>How many people on this list would have complained if they found out ISOC <i>had</i> signed this declaration. This has been out for about 30 hours.</div><div><br></div><div>I would offer that when we don't like something, we diplomatically say so. Not "jumping on the bandwagon" when every petition comes by is by no means a statement that we are opposed to the principles.</div><div><br></div><div>Are you aware there already is a "competing" Declaration of Internet Freedom, that claims it is far superior to the first Declaration of INternet Freedom?</div><div><br></div><div>Yes, I am happy that everyone is buying .org's. But on a serious note, as Alex and John has said, we should vet what's going on before we bestow the Internet Society's name, brand, and reputation on the latest petition.</div><div><br><div><div>On Jul 3, 2012, at 11:13 PM, David Solomonoff wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div>I think there is a real danger here that Khaled is addressing:<br><br>Vint and Jonathan have signed it. I did after I saw they did as individuals as well as many prestigious organizations ISOC often partners with. Is there something about the statement that is suspicious or problematical?<br><br>If so it should be addressed. Right now it looks like ISOC is either late to the party or actively opposed to these principles.<br><br>This kind on non-response can be extremely damaging to ISOC's reputation. And makes it hard for Chapters like ours that try to build relationships with cyberliberties groups at the local level.<br><br>On 7/3/12 7:22 PM, khaled koubaa wrote:<br><blockquote type="cite">I have seen Vint Cerf has signed it as person as well as Jonathan<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Zittrain ( Board member ) as person<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">I am also doing it as person. I see this as part of a campaign on<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">ITU/WCIT issues<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">And honestly I agree with all the declaration so I can not see why<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">ISOC don't signed as it what ISOC mission and values outline here :<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><a href="http://www.internetsociety.org/who-we-are/mission/values-and-principles">http://www.internetsociety.org/who-we-are/mission/values-and-principles</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">2012/7/3 Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch<<a href="mailto:apisan@unam.mx">apisan@unam.mx</a>>:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">David, all,<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">any more background?<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">I see reasons to discuss these purported principles but none to jump into an<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">unknown bandwagon without a good check on completeness, bias, alignment...<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Further, in other spaces, I've been critical of many "declarations of<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">principles for the Internet", other than the core design principles and<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">their evolution, as they superimpose agendas that the technology is not<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">meant to deliver or fix, and may end up, in fact, creating new constraints.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Plus what I think is the key question, "can you codify 'permanent-beta'"?<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Just a thought akin to looking at the pool before jumping...<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Yours,<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Alejandro Pisanty<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">! !! !!! !!!!<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">NEW PHONE NUMBER - NUEVO NÚMERO DE TELÉFONO<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">+52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">+525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">SMS +525541444475<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> Dr. Alejandro Pisanty<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Blog: <a href="http://pisanty.blogspot.com">http://pisanty.blogspot.com</a><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">LinkedIn: <a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty">http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty</a><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn,<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><a href="http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614">http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614</a><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Twitter: <a href="http://twitter.com/apisanty">http://twitter.com/apisanty</a><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, <a href="http://www.isoc.org">http://www.isoc.org</a><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">________________________________<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Desde: <a href="mailto:chapter-delegates-bounces@elists.isoc.org">chapter-delegates-bounces@elists.isoc.org</a><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">[chapter-delegates-bounces@elists.isoc.org] en nombre de David Solomonoff<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">[president@isoc-ny.org]<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Enviado el: martes, 03 de julio de 2012 11:57<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Hasta: Chapter Delegates<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Asunto: [Chapter-delegates] Has ISOC signed the Declaration of Internet<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Freedom?<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Did I miss ISOC on the list of organizational signers?<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Declaration<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">We stand for a free and open Internet.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">We support transparent and participatory processes for making Internet<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">policy and the establishment of five basic principles:<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> Expression: Don't censor the Internet.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> Access: Promote universal access to fast and affordable networks.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> Openness: Keep the Internet an open network where everyone is free to<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">connect, communicate, write, read, watch, speak, listen, learn, create and<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">innovate.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> Innovation: Protect the freedom to innovate and create without<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">permission. Don’t block new technologies, and don’t punish innovators for<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">their users' actions.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> Privacy: Protect privacy and defend everyone’s ability to control how<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">their data and devices are used.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><a href="http://www.internetdeclaration.org/freedom">http://www.internetdeclaration.org/freedom</a> (via shareaholic)<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">_______________________________________________<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Chapter-delegates mailing list<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><a href="mailto:Chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org">Chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org</a><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><a href="https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/chapter-delegates">https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/chapter-delegates</a><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">_______________________________________________<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Chapter-delegates mailing list<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><a href="mailto:Chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org">Chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><a href="https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/chapter-delegates">https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/chapter-delegates</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><br>_______________________________________________<br>Chapter-delegates mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org">Chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org</a><br>https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/chapter-delegates<br></div></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>