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Hi Eric,<br>
<br>
thanks for your comments. You wrote:<br>
<br>
“...if a chapter needs continuous funding for operations, then
either that chapter is really an ISOC office or the chapter does not
have the local support to be sustainable.”<br>
<br>
I would be happy to invite you for a week or a month in Cambodia.
Surely you could advise our membership (we started in September 2010
with 25, now we have 100) how to do better. In case you would come
– my invitation is similar to the regularly repeated invitations to
come to the Geneva meetings: You would have to pay your own expenses
for travel and hotel – in the same way in which we had received
information at a time that the costs for the Geneva INET had been
adjusted so that “everybody can now participate.” <br>
<br>
I had forgotten, at that time, to inform the writer that the monthly
salary of a high school teacher here is about US$50 (five zero, not
five hundred). Maybe we should really blame them – our 100 members –
for not providing the local support for a start-up office and a
secretary, to be sustainable? Part of industry and other
“authorities” are not so impressed with some ISOC positions: the
ISOC Board encouraging cooperation among all stakeholders, to
respect freedom of expression on the Internet (while here, all
Internet cafes etc. are at present being ordered to set up
surveillance cameras and write down the IDs of users), or that the
ISOC Board supported the anti-SOPA efforts.<br>
<br>
What was the annual budget of ISOC Global? About US$30 million?
Please correct me if I am wrong.<br>
<br>
Looking forward to real suggestions how we can do better, before we
disappear.<br>
<br>
<br>
Norbert Klein<br>
President<br>
ISOC Cambodia Chapter<br>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.isoc-kh.org">http://www.isoc-kh.org</a><br>
<br>
=<br>
<br>
On 03/28/2012 09:24 PM, Eric Burger wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:30C18D03-3667-4FA5-A3ED-8020C6D181D8@standardstrack.com"
type="cite">This is an important point. There is something that I
do not understand.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>What is the distinction between a chapter funded by ISOC and
a branch office of ISOC? John and Eduard explicitly mentions
ISOC as a worldwide NGO, and a handful of people on the list
+1'ed the concept. When I think of a worldwide NGO, I think of
paid staff, every office is under the direct control of
headquarters, and there may be a volunteer or two helping the
NGO out. An example here would be Médecins Sans Frontières,
where the doctors are essentially staff, sent into the field.
The field offices are literally field offices of MSF. They may
or may not have local employees, as needed.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I am under the belief that ISOC is more of a grass-roots
organization. Like-minded people get together, usually
regionally or around some other common interest. Is it your
desire to move to a centrally-administered model? For me, I
would not want ISOC-DC under the direct management of ISOC HQ.
There are things ISOC-DC does that we do that ISOC HQ, or a
branch office of ISOC, to do. As a recent example, imagine if
some of the folks from ISOC NY were receiving ISOC HQ funds.
When the story of Paul broke, instead of us showing our strength
in the ability of the ISOC NY leadership to speak their mind,
they would be seen as bad, soon to be ex-, employees of ISOC. I
know I do <b>not</b> want something like that to happen to my
chapter. Is that really what you want?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I have another question. Are there countries where the
regulatory or legal environment prevents individuals or entities
from raising funds for the operation of a non-profit, yet will
allow a branch office to open? If that is the case, I can see a
place for ISOC providing funding, using a grant model, to get
the organization started.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In my travels around the world to chapters in North America,
Europe, Asia, Africa, and Latin America (sorry, I haven't made
it yet to South America), I have seen chapters that manage to
find funds from sponsorship (North America, Europe), charging
for membership and getting big corporate sponsorships (North
America and Europe), government and corporate sponsorships
(Europe and Africa), program grants and local grants (Africa),
and chapter program revenue. For example, one of the African
chapters raises its entire budget from selling coffee at local
meetings. If a chapter needs funding for a project or program,
we have the Community Grant Programme, However, if a chapter
needs <b>continuous</b> funding for operations, then either
that chapter is really an ISOC office or the chapter does not
have the local support to be sustainable.</div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div>On Mar 28, 2012, at 3:13 PM, John More wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word;">Norbert and Veni 1+
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Having paid staff and an office are essential tools
for any successful chapter in any worldwide NGO, such as
ISOC. Volunteers are essential for leadership and
contacts, etc., but without staff to plan for and carry
out events on an ongoing basis and to supplement the
efforts of volunteers who often must manage their
businesses and jobs, the chapter cannot really be that
effective. One successful model is for the central
organization to train interns and then second them. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I have previously put forward the importance of paid
staff. Naturally the availability of funding (and
training) is important for Chapters located in regions
with fewer resources. At the same time, it should be a
requirement that the Chapter raise some money (even a
nominal amount). Charity is not a good model. No
financial contribution, no ownership -- a primary
principal of organizing.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>John More</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>ISOC-DC</div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div>On Mar 28, 2012, at 3:15 AM, Veni Markovski
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">Correct. We got also
additional support through the Global Internet
Policy Initiative - a program ISOC should have been
funding today, as they stopped functioning because
of lack of money. It was through GIPI that we got
the legal expertise we needed about 10 years ago,
and support for going to meetings, etc.
<div>
Worth considering from Isoc. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Btw, it seems we are sharing here ideas how not
only to make Isoc better, but to make it a great
organization. It would be good to see some follow
up on those ideas. They are based on experience
from many chapters, different cultures, etc., and
could be perhaps the missing part at Isoc. <span></span><br>
<br>
On Wednesday, March 28, 2012, Eduard Tric wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt
0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204,
204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">+1 here , too.<br>
When we were proposed to start a Romanian
chapter long time ago, i've asked a friend ,
chair at that time of another chapter , what do
we need to run a chapter, the answer was "energy
and a mailing list" .<br>
We still have the energy , but wee needed more
than the mailing list to function , it was an
investment so far : office space (people like
also to have physical meetings ) , internet ,
electricity. Having all that + energy was still
not enoug , for years Isoc Romania was more a
club of Internet enthusiasts running Internet
-related projects than a well-known and
respected local NGO.<br>
The boost in terms of awareness was the Inet
Bucharest and our bold position and initiative
on ACTA issue.<br>
Now we are well known,it's a fact.<br>
To become respected, we need (at least ) :
synchronization with other chapters and HQ ,
especially on policies issues, and yes, some
funding to run the chapter (especially the legal
part of our actions is very costly , we cannot
be efficient on policies without a local lawyer
support ).<br>
Regads,<br>
Ed<br>
----- Original Message -----<br>
From: "Veni Markovski" <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="javascript:;"
onclick="_e(event, 'cvml', 'veni@veni.com')">veni@veni.com</a>><br>
To: <a moz-do-not-send="true">president@isoc-kh.org</a><br>
Cc: <a moz-do-not-send="true">chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org</a><br>
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 9:37:27 AM<br>
Subject: Re: [Chapter-delegates] LoA for good or
bad?<br>
<br>
<br>
Norbert, +1.<br>
Isoc Bulgaria started being active, when we got
some funding. Before that it was mainly thanks
to the efforts of the board members, who were
spending their own money and time to keep the
chapter moving. If I wasn't a CEO of an ISP, and
co-founder, AND my business partner wouldn't
have agreed to let me allocate the time for
that... I wouldn't be even on this list now.<br>
Paid staff brought the chapter in another
dimension. Our committed, humble and totally
workohollic people are known to many of you.
Julia and Dessi have made wonderful things at
Isoc BG and continue doing them.<br>
But I've argued many years ago that Isoc HQ
could afford pay staff at chapters, which would
have.made the chapters stronger. HQ chose a
different path, and so far they've used only one
person from the chapters world - Jacek, who is
now working for Isoc. The regional directors are
a good idea, but they need more support - from
the chapters to do their job. And that's a
problem, as you properly point out, chapters
don't have staff to work for free. So, a
suggestion might be for HQ to create a pool for
supporting not just projects, but chapters
personnel hiring. My bet is that on average $
10,000 per chapter will be enough. Average,
because some don't need it, and some need only $
1,000 per year.<br>
<br>
<br>
V.<br>
<br>
On Wednesday, March 28, 2012, President ISOC-KH
wrote:<br>
<br>
<br>
On 03/27/2012 05:33 PM, Victor Ndonnang wrote:<br>
<br>
<br>
Dear Norbert,<br>
<br>
Thank you very much for your message. Talking
about building up a Chapter, supporting its
growth and making it sustainable, many Chapters
are in the same situation that you are
describing. It is easy to recruit volunteers
members for the Chapter but very few of those
members are prepared to do mandatory work of the
Chapter for nothing (unpaid). From developing
world perspective, It is also very difficult to
recruit members and ask them to pay (membership
fees) for doing unpaid work for the Chapter.<br>
<br>
I hope all this will be taken into consideration
in the LoA introduction process. Globally from
my personal view, the LoA is not a bad thing.<br>
<br>
Thanks one again.<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
Victor<br>
<br>
Dear Victor,<br>
<br>
thanks for your response, sharing information
about similar problems when developing a new
chapter in a difficult economic environment. You
understand our situation, as I understand yours.<br>
<br>
We all just got a reminder mail about the
deadline for submitting applications for
Community Grants.<br>
<br>
We will not submit a request – we had made
preparations last year, but had to move towards
applications in 2012, as our Secretary found it
too difficult to line up the precise detailed
data much ahead of time; we hoped to be able to
assemble them on the way towards two mayor
events. But our Secretary resigned, and it seems
to be extremely difficult to find an – unpaid –
replacement.<br>
<br>
I am not arguing against a program for well
designed grants with elaborate reporting
structures etc. But as far as I can see, there
are no Chapter Support grants, only for
“projects.”<br>
<br>
This is true also for the Information Society
Innovation Fund (ISIF) aiming at stimulating
creative solutions to ICT development needs in
the Asia Pacific region.<br>
<br>
The ISIF objectives list, among others:
“Successful and sustainable models for the
provision of Internet services.”<br>
<br>
But how could a young Chapter work on such
objectives without a basis in the form of a
small secretariat with at least one paid staff,
working on the maintenance and development of
the Chapter?<br>
<br>
The present Cambodia model for Internet service
providing is to have 10 or 12 (changing
frequently) ISPs competing in a tiny market (but
the authorities prevent real market-based
solutions by administrative interventions,
protecting some turfs, not allowing price based
competition). - Some of our members are
discussing this; but the volatile situation,
with frequently changing challenges which would
call for quick responses, can hardly be met
without a flexibly organized secretariat. - Our
March ISOC Monthly Newsletter gives an example
how we are till able to act strategically,
having established a bit of a reputation, in a
way which never could have been part of
“project” planning.<br>
<br>
<br>
Norbert<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
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</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
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</blockquote>
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