<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><a href="http://www.computing.co.uk/ctg/news/2075377/watchdog-slams-eu-retention-directive">http://www.computing.co.uk/ctg/news/2075377/watchdog-slams-eu-retention-directive</a><div><br></div><div>Good evening:</div><div><br></div><div>Whereas Costas Popotas is correct regarding the institutional and legal aspects of this Directive,</div><div>regarding the substance of the matter, my understanding is that the implementation of the Directive is inconsistent with EU privacy law and policy, disproportionate as to the costs, and ineffective regarding both harmonisation and crime prevention.</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div><br></div><div>CW</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><div><div>On 28 Jun 2011, at 22:19, Eduard Tric wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; position: static; z-index: auto; "><div><span>Thank you Costas,we are aware about the info you provided , but why cannot experts admit just for once that there is something wrong with this directive ? The isp's tell us it's wrong, the telcos providers tell us it's wrong, the associations of user protection the same.</span></div><div>Moreover , the constitutional Court remarks and EU directive are  in 180 degrees opposite directions , we don't see  a miracle solution in proposing another law, as the problem rised by the court comes from the directive. The transposition of aquis is pretty standard legal stuff , there is very little marge in the implementation. So what would be the solution ? If we put isoc name on the new law and the new law will not pass the pairlement , senate and Constitutional Court we will loss credibility. If we do nothing it would not help the EU netizens that we represent, as this problem was already largely discussed on the list.</div><div>Best regards,</div><div>Eduard</div><div> </div><div><br></div><div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; "><div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><hr size="1"><b><span style="font-weight: bold; "> From:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Costas Popotas <<a href="mailto:cpop@txt.gr">cpop@txt.gr</a>><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold; ">To:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Eduard Tric <<a href="mailto:eduard.tric@isoc.ro">eduard.tric@isoc.ro</a>>; Marta Dias <<a href="mailto:marta@fccn.pt">marta@fccn.pt</a>>; 'Chapter Delegates' <<a href="mailto:chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org">chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org</a>><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold; ">Sent:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Tuesday, June 28, 2011 10:18 PM<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold; ">Subject:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Chapter-delegates] Isoc ,Eu Directive on data retention and Romanian Law request for comments<br></font><br><div id="yiv2144276864"><div><font size="2" face="Arial">I intervene as an outsider but expert in EU law. When Romania joined EU it accepted the "acquis communautaire" the preexisting legal framework , thus the obligation to amend its legislation in domains contravening EU secondary legislation  according to the principle of supremacy of EU legislation. But as I understand it, the Romanian Court did not declare unconstitutional the EU directive (which they could have done since they have no such competence) they declared unconstitutional the national legislation implementing the directive. A directive is a broad framework stating the objectives to be attained leaving to the member state the responsibility of the means adopted. This means simply  new legislation has to be adopted in conformity with both EU directive and the national constitution. Nothing dramatic of revolutionary this has been done several times in the past elsewhere.</font></div><div> </div><div><font size="2" face="Arial">The end of a beautiful friendship has meaning only if a member state drops out of the EU.</font></div><div> </div><div><font size="2" face="Arial">best</font></div><div> </div><div><font size="2" face="Arial">Costas Popotas</font></div><div><font size="2" face="Arial">Luxembourg</font> </div><blockquote style="border-left-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-left-width: 2px; border-left-style: solid; padding-left: 5px; padding-right: 0px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px; "><div style="font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; ">----- Original Message ----- .</div><div style="font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: rgb(228, 228, 228); background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; "><b>From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a rel="nofollow" title="eduard.tric@isoc.ro" ymailto="mailto:eduard.tric@isoc.ro" target="_blank" href="mailto:eduard.tric@isoc.ro" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">Eduard Tric</a></div><div style="font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; "><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a rel="nofollow" title="marta@fccn.pt" ymailto="mailto:marta@fccn.pt" target="_blank" href="mailto:marta@fccn.pt" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">Marta Dias</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>;<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a rel="nofollow" title="chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org" ymailto="mailto:chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">'Chapter Delegates'</a></div><div style="font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; "><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Tuesday, June 28, 2011 3:36 PM</div><div style="font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; "><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Chapter-delegates] Isoc ,Eu Directive on data retention and Romanian Law request for comments</div><div><br></div><div style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 12pt; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; "><div><span>Hi Marta , Thanks for the info, Portugal did their homework just like any other member state.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br></span></div><div><span>What is interesting in Romania is that this law (and implicit the directive ) is unconstitutional.</span></div><div><span>The Directive </span><span lang="EN-US" class="yiv2144276864yui_3_2_0_16_1309257464873133" style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>2006/24/EC </span><span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>was made before EU enlargement, Romania never voted for it , so it should be modified.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br></span></div><div><span>As a general rule , any  directive declared<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span>unconstitutional by a member state<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span>should be modified.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br></span></div><div><span>EU is a union of sovereign states and should never act as a super-state, or it will be "the end of a beautiful friendship" , to mis-quote from Casablanca..</span></div><div><span>Regards,</span></div><div><span>Eduard<br></span></div><div><br></div><div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; "><div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><hr size="1"><b><span style="font-weight: bold; ">From:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Marta Dias <<a href="mailto:marta@fccn.pt" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">marta@fccn.pt</a>><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold; ">To:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>'Eduard Tric' <<a href="mailto:eduard.tric@isoc.ro" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">eduard.tric@isoc.ro</a>>; 'Chapter Delegates' <<a href="mailto:chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org</a>>; 'Frederic Donck' <<a href="mailto:donck@isoc.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">donck@isoc.org</a>>; 'Christopher Wilkinson' <<a href="mailto:cw@christopherwilkinson.eu" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">cw@christopherwilkinson.eu</a>><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold; ">Sent:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Tuesday, June 28, 2011 4:15 PM<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold; ">Subject:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>RE: [Chapter-delegates] Isoc , Eu Directive on data retention and Romanian Law request for comments<br></font><br><div id="yiv2144276864"><div class="yiv2144276864WordSection1"><div class="yiv2144276864MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-family: serif; font-size: 12pt; "><span lang="EN-US" style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif; ">Hi,</span></div><div class="yiv2144276864MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-family: serif; font-size: 12pt; "><span lang="EN-US" style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif; ">In Portugal Law 32/2008, transposes into national law Directive 2006/24/EC of Parliament and the Council of 15 March on the retention of data generated or processed in the context of provision of electronic communications services or of public communications networks. Under this law the operators are required to retain the data for a one year period (from the date of the conclusion of the communication).</span></div><div class="yiv2144276864MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-family: serif; font-size: 12pt; "><span lang="EN-US" style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif; ">Best regards,</span></div><div class="yiv2144276864MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-family: serif; font-size: 12pt; "><span lang="EN-US" style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif; ">Marta M. Dias</span></div><div class="yiv2144276864MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-family: serif; font-size: 12pt; "><span lang="EN-US" style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif; "><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://ISOC.PT" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">ISOC.PT</a></span></div><div class="yiv2144276864MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-family: serif; font-size: 12pt; "><span lang="EN-US" style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif; "></span> </div><div class="yiv2144276864MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-family: serif; font-size: 12pt; "><a rel="nofollow" name="_MailEndCompose"><span lang="EN-US" style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif; "></span></a> </div><div><div style="border-bottom-width: medium; border-bottom-style: none; border-bottom-color: initial; border-left-width: medium; border-left-style: none; border-left-color: initial; padding-bottom: 0cm; padding-left: 0cm; padding-right: 0cm; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-style: solid; border-right-width: medium; border-right-style: none; border-right-color: initial; padding-top: 3pt; "><div class="yiv2144276864MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-family: serif; font-size: 12pt; "><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif; ">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:chapter-delegates-bounces@elists.isoc.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">chapter-delegates-bounces@elists.isoc.org</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[<a href="mailto:chapter-delegates-bounces@elists.isoc.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">mailto:chapter-delegates-bounces@elists.isoc.org</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Eduard Tric<br><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>terça-feira, 28 de Junho de 2011 13:51<br><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Chapter Delegates; Frederic Donck; Christopher Wilkinson<br><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[Chapter-delegates] Isoc , Eu Directive on data retention and Romanian Law request for comments</span></div></div></div><div class="yiv2144276864MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-family: serif; font-size: 12pt; "> </div><div><div><div class="yiv2144276864MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-family: serif; font-size: 12pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; "><span style="color: black; font-family: sans-serif; ">As you probably know , the Romanian Constitutional Court has declared in 2009  Unconstitional the Romanian  transposition of the Eu Directive on Data retention (romanian law 298/2008). As a reminder , this directive asked to retain for 6 months (expenses paid by the operators ) any telecommunication data, including and not limited also to internet data.</span></div></div><div><div class="yiv2144276864MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-family: serif; font-size: 12pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; "><span style="color: black; font-family: sans-serif; "></span> </div></div><div><div class="yiv2144276864MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-family: serif; font-size: 12pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; "><span style="color: black; font-family: sans-serif; ">Now the romanian government decided to have a more open approach , and are asking for input from civil society. We have 2-3 weeks to make an answer that is compliant to the Directive AND to the Constitutional court decision.</span></div></div><div><div class="yiv2144276864MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-family: serif; font-size: 12pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; "><span style="color: black; font-family: sans-serif; "></span> </div></div><div><div class="yiv2144276864MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-family: serif; font-size: 12pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; "><span style="color: black; font-family: sans-serif; ">We would be  happy to take on our side input from other chapters, Isoc ECC,  Isoc HQ and European Bureau.</span></div></div><div><div class="yiv2144276864MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-family: serif; font-size: 12pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; "><span style="color: black; font-family: sans-serif; "></span> </div></div><div><div class="yiv2144276864MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-family: serif; font-size: 12pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; "><span style="color: black; font-family: sans-serif; ">. As it is unlikey that in Romania other organisations will respond , we see this as an opportunity for ISOC , especially in preparation for  the Inet in Bucharest but also to mark a point and help to change this unuseful directive into a more citzien-oriented one. It's gonna be our first public policy-making position, so we want to be as accurate as possible.</span></div></div><div><div class="yiv2144276864MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-family: serif; font-size: 12pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; "><span style="color: black; font-family: sans-serif; "></span> </div></div><div><div class="yiv2144276864MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-family: serif; font-size: 12pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; "><span style="color: black; font-family: sans-serif; ">Regards,</span></div></div><div><div class="yiv2144276864MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-family: serif; font-size: 12pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; "><span style="color: black; font-family: sans-serif; ">Eduard Tric</span></div></div><div><div class="yiv2144276864MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-family: serif; font-size: 12pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; "><span style="color: black; font-family: sans-serif; "></span> </div></div><div><div class="yiv2144276864MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-family: serif; font-size: 12pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; "><span style="color: black; font-family: sans-serif; ">References :</span></div></div><div><div class="yiv2144276864MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: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bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-family: serif; font-size: 12pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; "><span style="color: black; font-family: sans-serif; "></span> </div></div><div><div class="yiv2144276864MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-family: serif; font-size: 12pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; "><span style="color: black; font-family: sans-serif; "></span> </div></div><div><div class="yiv2144276864MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-family: serif; font-size: 12pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; "><span style="color: black; font-family: sans-serif; "></span> </div></div></div></div></div><br><br></div></div></div><div></div><hr><div></div>_______________________________________________<br>Chapter-delegates mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">Chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org</a><br><a href="https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/chapter-delegates" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/chapter-delegates</a><br></blockquote></div><br><br></div></div></div>_______________________________________________<br>European-chapters mailing list<br><a href="mailto:European-chapters@elists.isoc.org">European-chapters@elists.isoc.org</a><br><a href="https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/european-chapters">https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/european-chapters</a><br></div></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>