<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><div><span>Thank you Costas,we are aware about the info you provided , but why cannot experts admit just for once that there is something wrong with this directive ? The isp's tell us it's wrong, the telcos providers tell us it's wrong, the associations of user protection the same.</span></div><div>Moreover , the constitutional Court remarks and EU directive are in 180 degrees opposite directions , we don't see a miracle solution in proposing another law, as the problem rised by the court comes from the directive. The transposition of aquis is pretty standard legal stuff , there is very little marge in the implementation. So what would be the solution ? If we put isoc name on the new law and the new law will not pass the pairlement , senate and Constitutional Court we will loss credibility. If we do nothing it would not help the
EU netizens that we represent, as this problem was already largely discussed on the list.</div><div>Best regards,</div><div>Eduard</div><div> </div><div><br></div><div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; "><div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><hr size="1"><b><span style="font-weight:bold;"> From:</span></b> Costas Popotas <cpop@txt.gr><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Eduard Tric <eduard.tric@isoc.ro>; Marta Dias <marta@fccn.pt>; 'Chapter Delegates' <chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, June 28, 2011 10:18 PM<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Chapter-delegates] Isoc ,Eu Directive on data retention and Romanian Law request for comments<br></font><br>
<div id="yiv2144276864">
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">I intervene as an outsider but expert in EU law.
When Romania joined EU it accepted the "acquis communautaire" the preexisting
legal framework , thus the obligation to amend its legislation in domains
contravening EU secondary legislation according to the principle of
supremacy of EU legislation. But as I understand it, the Romanian Court did not
declare unconstitutional the EU directive (which they could have done since they
have no such competence) they declared unconstitutional the national legislation
implementing the directive. A directive is a broad framework stating the
objectives to be attained leaving to the member state the responsibility of the
means adopted. This means simply new legislation has to be adopted in
conformity with both EU directive and the national constitution. Nothing
dramatic of revolutionary this has been done several times in the past
elsewhere.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">The end of a beautiful friendship has meaning
only if a member state drops out of the EU.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">best </font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Costas Popotas </font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Luxembourg</font> </div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#000000 2px solid;PADDING-LEFT:5px;PADDING-RIGHT:0px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-RIGHT:0px;">
<div style="FONT:10pt arial;">----- Original Message ----- . </div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial;BACKGROUND:#e4e4e4;"><b>From:</b>
<a rel="nofollow" title="eduard.tric@isoc.ro" ymailto="mailto:eduard.tric@isoc.ro" target="_blank" href="mailto:eduard.tric@isoc.ro">Eduard Tric</a>
</div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial;"><b>To:</b> <a rel="nofollow" title="marta@fccn.pt" ymailto="mailto:marta@fccn.pt" target="_blank" href="mailto:marta@fccn.pt">Marta Dias</a> ; <a rel="nofollow" title="chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org" ymailto="mailto:chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org">'Chapter Delegates'</a> </div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial;"><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 28, 2011 3:36
PM</div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial;"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Chapter-delegates] Isoc ,Eu
Directive on data retention and Romanian Law request for comments</div>
<div><br></div>
<div style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 12pt; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; ">
<div><span>Hi Marta , Thanks for the info, Portugal did their homework just
like any other member state. <br></span></div>
<div><span>What is interesting in Romania is that this law (and implicit the
directive ) is unconstitutional.</span></div>
<div><span>The Directive </span><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif; " lang="EN-US" class="yiv2144276864yui_3_2_0_16_1309257464873133"> 2006/24/EC </span><span> was made
before EU enlargement, Romania never voted for it , so it should be modified.
<br></span></div>
<div><span>As a general rule , any directive declared
</span><span>unconstitutional by a member state </span><span>should be
modified. <br></span></div>
<div><span>EU is a union of sovereign states and should never act as a
super-state, or it will be "the end of a beautiful friendship" , to mis-quote
from Casablanca..</span></div>
<div><span>Regards,</span></div>
<div><span>Eduard<br></span></div>
<div><br></div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; ">
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; "><font size="2" face="Arial">
<hr size="1">
<b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">From:</span></b> Marta Dias
<marta@fccn.pt><br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">To:</span></b>
'Eduard Tric' <eduard.tric@isoc.ro>; 'Chapter Delegates'
<chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org>; 'Frederic Donck'
<donck@isoc.org>; 'Christopher Wilkinson'
<cw@christopherwilkinson.eu><br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, June 28, 2011 4:15
PM<br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">Subject:</span></b> RE:
[Chapter-delegates] Isoc , Eu Directive on data retention and Romanian Law
request for comments<br></font><br>
<div id="yiv2144276864">
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<div class="yiv2144276864MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif; " lang="EN-US">Hi,</span></div>
<div class="yiv2144276864MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif; " lang="EN-US">In Portugal Law 32/2008, transposes into national law Directive
2006/24/EC of Parliament and the Council of 15 March on the retention of data
generated or processed in the context of provision of electronic
communications services or of public communications networks. Under this law
the operators are required to retain the data for a one year period (from the
date of the conclusion of the communication).</span></div>
<div class="yiv2144276864MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif; " lang="EN-US">Best regards,</span></div>
<div class="yiv2144276864MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif; " lang="EN-US">Marta M. Dias</span></div>
<div class="yiv2144276864MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif; " lang="EN-US"><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://ISOC.PT">ISOC.PT</a></span></div>
<div class="yiv2144276864MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif; " lang="EN-US"></span> </div>
<div class="yiv2144276864MsoNormal"><a rel="nofollow" name="_MailEndCompose"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif; " lang="EN-US"></span></a> </div>
<div>
<div style="BORDER-BOTTOM:medium none;BORDER-LEFT:medium none;PADDING-BOTTOM:0cm;PADDING-LEFT:0cm;PADDING-RIGHT:0cm;BORDER-TOP:#b5c4df 1pt solid;BORDER-RIGHT:medium none;PADDING-TOP:3pt;">
<div class="yiv2144276864MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif; " lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif; " lang="EN-US">
chapter-delegates-bounces@elists.isoc.org
[mailto:chapter-delegates-bounces@elists.isoc.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Eduard
Tric<br><b>Sent:</b> terça-feira, 28 de Junho de 2011 13:51<br><b>To:</b>
Chapter Delegates; Frederic Donck; Christopher Wilkinson<br><b>Subject:</b>
[Chapter-delegates] Isoc , Eu Directive on data retention and Romanian Law
request for comments</span></div></div></div>
<div class="yiv2144276864MsoNormal"> </div>
<div>
<div>
<div style="BACKGROUND:white;" class="yiv2144276864MsoNormal"><span style="color: black; font-family: sans-serif; ">As you probably know , the
Romanian Constitutional Court has declared in 2009 Unconstitional the
Romanian transposition of the Eu Directive on Data retention (romanian
law 298/2008). As a reminder , this directive asked to retain for 6 months
(expenses paid by the operators ) any telecommunication data, including and
not limited also to internet data.</span></div></div>
<div>
<div style="BACKGROUND:white;" class="yiv2144276864MsoNormal"><span style="color: black; font-family: sans-serif; "></span> </div></div>
<div>
<div style="BACKGROUND:white;" class="yiv2144276864MsoNormal"><span style="color: black; font-family: sans-serif; ">Now the romanian government
decided to have a more open approach , and are asking for input from civil
society. We have 2-3 weeks to make an answer that is compliant to the
Directive AND to the Constitutional court decision.</span></div></div>
<div>
<div style="BACKGROUND:white;" class="yiv2144276864MsoNormal"><span style="color: black; font-family: sans-serif; "></span> </div></div>
<div>
<div style="BACKGROUND:white;" class="yiv2144276864MsoNormal"><span style="color: black; font-family: sans-serif; ">We would be happy to
take on our side input from other chapters, Isoc ECC, Isoc HQ and
European Bureau.</span></div></div>
<div>
<div style="BACKGROUND:white;" class="yiv2144276864MsoNormal"><span style="color: black; font-family: sans-serif; "></span> </div></div>
<div>
<div style="BACKGROUND:white;" class="yiv2144276864MsoNormal"><span style="color: black; font-family: sans-serif; ">. As it is unlikey that in
Romania other organisations will respond , we see this as an opportunity for
ISOC , especially in preparation for the Inet in Bucharest but also to
mark a point and help to change this unuseful directive into a more
citzien-oriented one. It's gonna be our first public policy-making position,
so we want to be as accurate as possible.</span></div></div>
<div>
<div style="BACKGROUND:white;" class="yiv2144276864MsoNormal"><span style="color: black; font-family: sans-serif; "></span> </div></div>
<div>
<div style="BACKGROUND:white;" class="yiv2144276864MsoNormal"><span style="color: black; font-family: sans-serif; ">Regards,</span></div></div>
<div>
<div style="BACKGROUND:white;" class="yiv2144276864MsoNormal"><span style="color: black; font-family: sans-serif; ">Eduard Tric</span></div></div>
<div>
<div style="BACKGROUND:white;" class="yiv2144276864MsoNormal"><span style="color: black; font-family: sans-serif; "></span> </div></div>
<div>
<div style="BACKGROUND:white;" class="yiv2144276864MsoNormal"><span style="color: black; font-family: sans-serif; ">References
:</span></div></div>
<div>
<div style="BACKGROUND:white;" class="yiv2144276864MsoNormal"><span style="color: black; font-family: sans-serif; ">http://www.mcsi.ro/Transparenta-decizionala</span></div></div>
<div>
<div style="BACKGROUND:white;" class="yiv2144276864MsoNormal"><span style="color: black; font-family: sans-serif; ">http://www.mcsi.ro/Transparenta-decizionala/24/ProiectRetinereaDatelor</span></div></div>
<div>
<div style="BACKGROUND:white;" class="yiv2144276864MsoNormal"><span style="color: black; font-family: sans-serif; ">http://www.mcsi.ro/Transparenta-decizionala/24/ExpunereMotive</span></div></div>
<div>
<div style="BACKGROUND:white;" class="yiv2144276864MsoNormal"><span style="color: black; font-family: sans-serif; ">Eu Directive </span><span class="yiv2144276864tpa1"><span style="COLOR:black;">2006/24/CE with
modification on </span></span><span class="yiv2144276864tpa1"><span style="COLOR:black;" lang="RO">2002/58/CE
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:32006L0024:EN:HTML
</span></span><span style="color: black; font-family: sans-serif; "></span></div></div>
<div>
<div style="BACKGROUND:white;" class="yiv2144276864MsoNormal"><span style="color: black; font-family: sans-serif; ">romanian law 298/2008
http://www.legi-internet.ro/legislatie-itc/date-cu-caracter-personal/legea-2982008-privind-pastrarea-datelor-de-trafic-informational.html
</span></div></div>
<div>
<div style="BACKGROUND:white;" class="yiv2144276864MsoNormal"><span style="color: black; font-family: sans-serif; "></span> </div></div>
<div>
<div style="BACKGROUND:white;" class="yiv2144276864MsoNormal"><span style="color: black; font-family: sans-serif; ">Eu commision letter from 16-th
of June 2011 reminding the necessity of transponding the directive
</span><span class="yiv2144276864tpa1"><span style="COLOR:black;">2006/24/CE
</span></span><span style="color: black; font-family: sans-serif; "></span></div></div>
<div>
<div style="BACKGROUND:white;" class="yiv2144276864MsoNormal"><span style="color: black; font-family: sans-serif; "></span> </div></div>
<div>
<div style="BACKGROUND:white;" class="yiv2144276864MsoNormal"><span style="color: black; font-family: sans-serif; "></span> </div></div>
<div>
<div style="BACKGROUND:white;" class="yiv2144276864MsoNormal"><span style="color: black; font-family: sans-serif; "></span> </div></div></div></div></div><br><br></div></div></div>
<div>
</div><hr>
<div></div>_______________________________________________<br>Chapter-delegates
mailing
list<br>Chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org<br>https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/chapter-delegates<br></blockquote>
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