<font class="Apple-style-span" color="#333333" face="verdana, sans-serif"><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#333333" face="verdana, sans-serif">Dear Alejandro,</font></div><br></font><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 12:41 AM, Alejandro Pisanty <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:apisan@servidor.unam.mx">apisan@servidor.unam.mx</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">Siva,<br>
<br>
I think Grigori points further out to a flaw in your original argument, which many of us have chosen not to comment yet.<br>
<br>
The political agendas of many governments who want the ITU to have an upper hand in Internet Governance, and the IGF to be a forum to legitimize government intervention and control ever further, are not determined by the telcos. They are purely politically motivated.<br>
</blockquote><div><br></div><div>Thanks for your comments again. </div><div><br></div><div>So it is convenient for Governments to use the ITU forum where they willingly work together with Telecoms, understandably with an unseen upper hand over the business members, to achieve political control over all communications ? What I wrote was on the aspects of the Telecoms taking commercial advantage of the union. It is more true that many Governments take political advantage of the union. </div>
<div><br></div><div>In the brief paragraph on the ITU game plan on Security I said that the ITU Security agenda suits both the Governments and business members. I should have said this in the broader context - the union is mutual.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Even if brings mutual benefits, the call for separation is valid. What you call the flaw is that the article does not indicate that the Governments are quite comfortable in the ITU setting ?</div><div>
<br></div><div>This union is not required. It is not right. Sooner or later financial power will prevail over political power (it already prevails to a large extent) and Government policies will be more to the comfort of the Telecom businesses.</div>
<div><br></div><div>I agree that it is a complex relationship, not just a relationship of business taking undue advantage of inner proximity to Government.</div><div><br></div><div>Sivasubramanian M</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<br>
You do mention that telcos, carriers, and ISPs and equipment providers are providing capacities which governments and other powers want (DPI comes to mind, as does traceback.)<br>
<br>
Your fellow countryman Pavan Duggal famously said in the 2008 IGF in Hyderabad, "governments like to listen; electronic interception is the norm of the day."<br>
<br>
The full quote is "Another historical aspect that we need to consider is the fact that in these parts of the world, governments like to listen. If governments want to listen, electronic interception is the norm of the day." Find it in <a href="http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/hyderabad_prog/Open%20Dialogue.html" target="_blank">http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/hyderabad_prog/Open%20Dialogue.html</a><br>
<br>
Lots going on in the world (including the US) revolves around these intentions. There is a lot of forum shopping in search of legitimation. The ITU environment does have some traditions with which it may resonate.<br>
<br>
Yours,<div class="im"><br>
<br>
Alejandro Pisanty<br>
<br>
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .<br>
Dr. Alejandro Pisanty<br>
UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico<br>
<br>
Tels. +52-(1)-55-5105-6044, +52-(1)-55-5418-3732<br>
<br>
* Mi blog/My blog: <a href="http://pisanty.blogspot.com" target="_blank">http://pisanty.blogspot.com</a><br>
* LinkedIn profile: <a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty" target="_blank">http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty</a><br>
* Twitter: <a href="http://twitter.com/apisanty" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/apisanty</a><br>
* Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, <a href="http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614" target="_blank">http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614</a><br>
<br>
* Ven a ISOC Mexico, <a href="http://www.isoc.org.mx" target="_blank">http://www.isoc.org.mx</a>, ISOC <a href="http://www.isoc.org" target="_blank">http://www.isoc.org</a><br>
*Participa en ICANN, <a href="http://www.icann.org" target="_blank">http://www.icann.org</a><br>
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .<br>
<br>
<br></div>
On Tue, 12 Oct 2010, Sivasubramanian M wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 00:30:17 +0530<div class="im"><br>
From: Sivasubramanian M <<a href="mailto:isolatedn@gmail.com" target="_blank">isolatedn@gmail.com</a>><br></div>
To: Grigori Saghyan <<a href="mailto:gregor@arminco.com" target="_blank">gregor@arminco.com</a>><br>
Cc: <a href="mailto:chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org" target="_blank">chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [Chapter-delegates] ITU, ICANN and Internet Governance<div><div></div><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
Dear Grigori Saghyan<br>
<br>
Thank you for your comments.<br>
<br>
Your observation about the main focus of some countries is a very valid<br>
observation. Telecoms have, wittingly or unwittingly, signed into<br>
Government policies, and in some countries they work closely with<br>
Governments. It is difficult for them to protest or resist Government<br>
directives, for e.g a public or secret directive to enable easy wire tapping<br>
or decryption. Some submit to content regulation policies willingly and<br>
easily, while most others find it hard to challenge them.<br>
<br>
<br>
Sivasubramanian M<br>
<a href="http://turiya.co.in" target="_blank">http://turiya.co.in</a><br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.isocmadras.com" target="_blank">http://www.isocmadras.com</a><br>
facebook: <a href="http://is.gd/x8Sh" target="_blank">http://is.gd/x8Sh</a><br>
LinkedIn: <a href="http://is.gd/x8U6" target="_blank">http://is.gd/x8U6</a><br>
Twitter: <a href="http://is.gd/x8Vz" target="_blank">http://is.gd/x8Vz</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 10:53 PM, Grigori Saghyan <<a href="mailto:gregor@arminco.com" target="_blank">gregor@arminco.com</a>>wrote:<br>
<br>
</div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div></div><div class="h5">
Dear Mr. Sivasubramanianm<br>
very interesting article, but I think the main focus of Russia, China,<br>
Iran, Syria is not the business case. Content regulation is the keyword.<br>
Telecoms in general are<br>
content indifferent, but I agree, that in order to keep their position on<br>
the market they are ready to support any government initiative.<br>
Grigori Saghyan<br>
<a href="http://ISOC.AM" target="_blank">ISOC.AM</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 09.10.2010 22:11, Sivasubramanian M wrote:<br>
<br>
Hello<br>
<br>
At Guadalajara, Mexico this week, in the policy debate kicked off by the<br>
ITU, Russian Federation's Minister of Communications proposed that the ITU<br>
should give itself veto power over ICANN decisions. This proposal by the<br>
Regional Commonwealth in the field of Communications (RCC) calls for the<br>
ICANN Governmental Advisory Committee (GAC) to be scrapped and replaced by<br>
an ITU group.<br>
<br>
I wrote an article about it, on CircleID<br>
<a href="http://www.circleid.com/posts/on_the_need_to_separate_the_telecom_business_agenda_from_government_policy/" target="_blank">http://www.circleid.com/posts/on_the_need_to_separate_the_telecom_business_agenda_from_government_policy/</a><br>
<br>
May I request your comments on this?<br>
<br>
Sivasubramanian M<br>
<a href="http://turiya.co.in" target="_blank">http://turiya.co.in</a><br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.isocmadras.com" target="_blank">http://www.isocmadras.com</a><br>
facebook: <a href="http://is.gd/x8Sh" target="_blank">http://is.gd/x8Sh</a><br>
LinkedIn: <a href="http://is.gd/x8U6" target="_blank">http://is.gd/x8U6</a><br>
Twitter: <a href="http://is.gd/x8Vz" target="_blank">http://is.gd/x8Vz</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br></div></div>
Chapter-delegates mailing listChapter-delegates@elists.isoc.orghttps://<a href="http://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/chapter-delegates" target="_blank">elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/chapter-delegates</a><div class="im">
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Chapter-delegates mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org" target="_blank">Chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org</a><br>
<a href="https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/chapter-delegates" target="_blank">https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/chapter-delegates</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</div></blockquote>
<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote></div><br>