<HTML><BODY style="word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; -khtml-line-break: after-white-space; ">I have no problem with the response that "network neutrality" may be the wrong term and invite regulators to misinterpret both the problem and the solution. That said, I think we also need to speak plainly and directly so there's no misunderstanding of what we're talking about. Terms like "openness" and "end-to-end" and "innovation" are delightfully malleable and can mean whatever the speaker chooses them to mean.<DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Steve</DIV><DIV><DIV><BR><DIV> <SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><DIV>Steve Crocker</DIV><DIV><A href="mailto:steve@shinkuro.com">steve@shinkuro.com</A></DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Monaco" size="2"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10px;; font-family: Monaco; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Monaco; font-size: 10px; ">Try Shinkuro's collaboration technology. Visit </SPAN></SPAN></FONT>www.shinkuro.com. I am steve!shinkuro.com.</DIV><BR class="Apple-interchange-newline"></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN> </DIV><BR><DIV><DIV>On May 16, 2006, at 9:45 AM, Michael R Nelson wrote:</DIV><BR class="Apple-interchange-newline"><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><P>That's true. The phrases "technology neutrality" and "regulate like services alike" have done a lot of damage--and led to the extension of regulation onto various Internet services (including VoIP).<BR> <BR> Rather than talk about "Net Neutrality," I much prefer to focus on the ISOC terms: "openness" and "end-to-end" and "innovation"<BR> <BR> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++<BR> <BR> Michael R. Nelson<BR> Director, Internet Technology and Strategy<BR> IBM Corporation<BR> 1301 K St., N.W., Suite 1200<BR> Washington, DC 20005<BR> 202-515-5137 <BR> cell 703-598-5187<BR> <A href="mailto:mrn@us.ibm.com">mrn@us.ibm.com</A><BR> <SPAN><DIV><graycol.gif></DIV></SPAN>Alejandro Pisanty <<A href="mailto:apisan@servidor.unam.mx">apisan@servidor.unam.mx</A>><BR> <BR> <BR> <TABLE width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <TBODY><TR valign="top"><TD style="background-image:url(cid:20__=0ABBFBE3DFD8DCF18f9e8a93df938@us.ibm.com); background-repeat: no-repeat; " width="40%"> <UL> <UL> <UL> <UL><B><FONT size="2">Alejandro Pisanty <<A href="mailto:apisan@servidor.unam.mx">apisan@servidor.unam.mx</A>></FONT></B><FONT size="2"> </FONT> <P><FONT size="2">05/16/2006 09:30 AM</FONT></P></UL> </UL> </UL> </UL> </TD><TD width="60%"> <TABLE width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <TBODY><TR valign="top"><TD width="1%" valign="middle"><SPAN><DIV><ecblank.gif></DIV></SPAN><BR> <DIV align="right"><FONT size="2">To</FONT></DIV></TD><TD width="100%"><SPAN><DIV><ecblank.gif></DIV></SPAN><BR> <FONT size="2">Michael R Nelson/Washington/IBM@IBMUS</FONT></TD></TR><TR valign="top"><TD width="1%" valign="middle"><SPAN><DIV><ecblank.gif></DIV></SPAN><BR> <DIV align="right"><FONT size="2">cc</FONT></DIV></TD><TD width="100%"><SPAN><DIV><ecblank.gif></DIV></SPAN><BR> <FONT size="2">isoc Delegates Chapter <<A href="mailto:chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org">chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org</A>>, <A href="mailto:chapter-delegates-bounces@elists.isoc.org">chapter-delegates-bounces@elists.isoc.org</A>, <A href="mailto:fred@cisco.com">fred@cisco.com</A>, <A href="mailto:shears@isoc.org">shears@isoc.org</A>, Steve Crocker <<A href="mailto:steve@shinkuro.com">steve@shinkuro.com</A>></FONT></TD></TR><TR valign="top"><TD width="1%" valign="middle"><SPAN><DIV><ecblank.gif></DIV></SPAN><BR> <DIV align="right"><FONT size="2">Subject</FONT></DIV></TD><TD width="100%"><SPAN><DIV><ecblank.gif></DIV></SPAN><BR> <FONT size="2">Re: [Chapter-delegates] ISOC Board next meeting -- NET NEUTRALITY</FONT></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> <TABLE border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <TBODY><TR valign="top"><TD width="58"><SPAN><DIV><ecblank.gif></DIV></SPAN></TD><TD width="336"><SPAN><DIV><ecblank.gif></DIV></SPAN></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> <BR> <TT>Mike,<BR> <BR> thanks a lot for this shift of focus.<BR> <BR> Something many Internet people do not like at all is that in many <BR> countries and contexts, mention of "neutrality" immediately starts the <BR> regulators thinking "voice is voice" with a well-known damage to all <BR> things VoIP.<BR> <BR> Alejandro Pisanty<BR> <BR> <BR> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .<BR> Dr. Alejandro Pisanty<BR> Director General de Servicios de Computo Academico<BR> UNAM, Universidad Nacional Autonoma de Mexico<BR> Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico<BR> Tel. (+52-55) 5622-8541, 5622-8542 Fax 5622-8540<BR> </TT><TT><A href="http://www.dgsca.unam.mx">http://www.dgsca.unam.mx</A></TT><TT><BR> *<BR> ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, <A href="http://www.isoc.org">www.isoc.org</A><BR> Participa en ICANN, <A href="http://www.icann.org">www.icann.org</A><BR> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .<BR> <BR> <BR> On Tue, 16 May 2006, Michael R Nelson wrote:<BR> <BR> > Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 08:50:50 -0400<BR> > From: Michael R Nelson <<A href="mailto:mrn@us.ibm.com">mrn@us.ibm.com</A>><BR> > To: isoc Delegates Chapter <<A href="mailto:chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org">chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org</A>>,<BR> > <A href="mailto:chapter-delegates-bounces@elists.isoc.org">chapter-delegates-bounces@elists.isoc.org</A>, <A href="mailto:fred@cisco.com">fred@cisco.com</A>,<BR> > <A href="mailto:shears@isoc.org">shears@isoc.org</A>, Steve Crocker <<A href="mailto:steve@shinkuro.com">steve@shinkuro.com</A>><BR> > Subject: Re: [Chapter-delegates] ISOC Board next meeting -- NET NEUTRALITY<BR> > <BR> ><BR> ><BR> ><BR> ><BR> ><BR> > I see several problems with focusing just on "Net neutrality." First off,<BR> > the term is much more popular in the US than elsewhere. Second, the term<BR> > is defined in at least four different ways. Third, when you use the phrase<BR> > "Net neutrality," the debate automatically turns to the question of whether<BR> > regulation is needed to specify the architecture and interconnection rules<BR> > for the Internet.<BR> ><BR> > I believe it's far more important to ensure "Network choice" and foster<BR> > competition. If there is vigorous competition between ISPs, telcos, and<BR> > cable companies, then Net neutrality will be the market result (and<BR> > legislation won't be needed).<BR> ><BR> > I'd rather see ISOC write a paper or take a position on "Telecom<BR> > Competition: Ensuring Net Neutrality and Network Choice"<BR> ><BR> > That also puts more focus on user needs (rather than the needs of Google,<BR> > Yahoo, and other content creators).<BR> ><BR> > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++<BR> ><BR> ><BR> > Michael R. Nelson<BR> > Director, Internet Technology and Strategy<BR> > IBM Corporation<BR> > and<BR> > Vice President, Policy<BR> > Internet Society<BR> > 1301 K St., N.W., Suite 1200<BR> > Washington, DC 20005<BR> > 202-515-5137<BR> > cell 703-598-5187<BR> > <A href="mailto:mrn@us.ibm.com">mrn@us.ibm.com</A><BR> ><BR> ><BR> ><BR> > Steve Crocker<BR> > <<A href="mailto:steve@shinkuro.c">steve@shinkuro.c</A><BR> > om> To<BR> > Sent by: <A href="mailto:shears@isoc.org">shears@isoc.org</A><BR> > chapter-delegates cc<BR> > <A href="mailto:-bounces@elists.i">-bounces@elists.i</A> isoc Delegates Chapter<BR> > soc.org <<A href="mailto:chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org">chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org</A>><BR> > Subject<BR> > Re: [Chapter-delegates] ISOC Board<BR> > 05/16/2006 08:10 next meeting -- NET NEUTRALITY<BR> > AM<BR> ><BR> ><BR> ><BR> ><BR> ><BR> ><BR> ><BR> ><BR> ><BR> > Matthew,<BR> ><BR> > This works for me. Thanks.<BR> ><BR> > Steve<BR> ><BR> ><BR> > Steve Crocker<BR> > <A href="mailto:steve@shinkuro.com">steve@shinkuro.com</A><BR> ><BR> > Try Shinkuro's collaboration technology. Visit <A href="http://www.shinkuro.com">www.shinkuro.com</A>. I<BR> > am steve!shinkuro.com.<BR> ><BR> ><BR> > On May 16, 2006, at 8:07 AM, <A href="mailto:shears@isoc.org">shears@isoc.org</A> wrote:<BR> ><BR> >> Steve, Gene, all,<BR> >><BR> >> Many thanks for kicking this off. I would like to move this<BR> >> discussion<BR> >> over to the memberpubpol list and build upon it.<BR> >><BR> >> I shall carry this thread over and look forward, as Steve says, to a<BR> >> "careful, informed discussion and consideration of what ISOC might<BR> >> usefully do in this area."<BR> >><BR> >> I will also post some interesting links as much has been written on<BR> >> this<BR> >> issue and encourage others to do so.<BR> >><BR> >> Best.<BR> >><BR> >> Matthew<BR> >><BR> >><BR> >><BR> >><BR> >><BR> >> -----Original Message-----<BR> >> From: "Steve Crocker" <<A href="mailto:steve@shinkuro.com">steve@shinkuro.com</A>><BR> >> Sent: Tue, May 16, 2006 13:11<BR> >> To: "isoc Delegates Chapter" <<A href="mailto:chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org">chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org</A>><BR> >> Subject: Re: [Chapter-delegates] ISOC Board next meeting -- NET<BR> >> NEUTRALITY<BR> >><BR> >> As an outgoing board member I've been inclined to be reticent, but<BR> >> this particular issue resonates very strongly with me. When the U.S.<BR> >> Supreme Court decided last year that major providers could control<BR> >> the content of what's delivered over their pipes, on the theory that<BR> >> competition existed, I came to the conclusion that this is indeed an<BR> >> important issue and one that is very appropriate for ISOC to support.<BR> >><BR> >> I've said this in private but haven't spent much time pushing on it,<BR> >> and I applaud the discussion here. I think this is a very good time<BR> >> to raise this, and I strongly support having a careful, informed<BR> >> discussion and consideration of what ISOC might usefully do in this<BR> >> area.<BR> >><BR> >> Steve<BR> >><BR> >> Steve Crocker<BR> >> <A href="mailto:steve@shinkuro.com">steve@shinkuro.com</A><BR> >><BR> >> Try Shinkuro's collaboration technology. Visit <A href="http://www.shinkuro.com">www.shinkuro.com</A>. I<BR> >> am steve!shinkuro.com.<BR> >><BR> >><BR> >> On May 16, 2006, at 6:46 AM, Gene Gaines wrote:<BR> >><BR> >>> ARE THERE ANY OBJECTIONS TO RECOMMENDING TO THE ISOC BOARD OF<BR> >>> TRUSTEES THAT A POSITION ON "INTERNET NETWORK NEUTRALITY"<BR> >>> BE GIVEN HIGH PRIORITY?<BR> >>><BR> >>> Alan, thanks for the good statement from Wikipedia (below),<BR> >>> hope to hear more from you.<BR> >>><BR> >>> Gene Gaines<BR> >>><BR> >>><BR> >>> On Tuesday, May 16, 2006, 3:09:24 AM, Alan wrote:<BR> >>><BR> >>>> Gene,<BR> >>><BR> >>>> On 15 May 2006, at 6:08 PM, Gene Gaines wrote:<BR> >>>>> I wish to propose an item to be discussed: NETWORK NEUTRALITY.<BR> >>><BR> >>>> I support this in terms of the article </TT><TT><A href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/</A></TT><TT><BR> >>>> Network_neutrality<BR> >>><BR> >>>> Veni asked for steps, I suggest that a position statement in support<BR> >>>> of this principle will be a great start. Wikipedia mentions<BR> >>>> "Neutrality as law:<BR> >>>> Net neutrality has been instantiated into law in many countries,<BR> >>>> including the United Kingdom, South Korea, and Japan. In the United<BR> >>>> States, there are no laws that instantiate net neutrality as a<BR> >>>> telecommunications standard. Many advocates, however, have spoken<BR> >>>> loudly on its behalf. This, combined with worries over favoritism by<BR> >>>> telecoms, prompted Congress to begin hearings on the subject."<BR> >>><BR> >>>>> For discussion... Perhaps organizations that take positions<BR> >>>>> against this vision should not be permitted to be ISOC members?<BR> >>>>> Comments?<BR> >>><BR> >>>> ISOC-ZA has no organisations as members. Organisations (business and<BR> >>>> government) are supporters of our projects, and partners, but as<BR> >>>> civil society we have a policy against this, in case of private<BR> >>>> interest conflicting with the community.<BR> >>><BR> >>>> I apologise for my lack of participation in the past few months, we<BR> >>>> have had some mail issues.<BR> >>><BR> >>>> warm regards,<BR> >>><BR> >>>> aLan<BR> >>>> ISOC-ZA<BR> >>><BR> >>>>> On Thursday, May 11, 2006, 7:07:03 AM, Franck wrote:<BR> >>>>><BR> >>>>>> To all ISOC members,<BR> >>>>><BR> >>>>>> The next board of Trustees from ISOC will be on the 1st July<BR> >>>>>> 2006 in<BR> >>>>>> Marrakesh. You can read the previous minutes of the board and its<BR> >>>>>> past<BR> >>>>>> resolutions on the ISOC web site. To submit an item to be<BR> >>>>>> discussed by<BR> >>>>>> the board it must be submitted by a trustee at least 4 weeks<BR> >>>>>> before the<BR> >>>>>> board. As trustees, we would like to know from you before the end<BR> >>>>>> of the<BR> >>>>>> month of May, if there is any specific topic you would like us to<BR> >>>>>> discuss<BR> >>>>>> at the board.<BR> >>>>><BR> >>>>>> Sincerely,<BR> >>>>>> Franck, Patrick & Veni<BR> >>>>><BR> >>>>>> _______________________________________________<BR> >>>>>> Chapter-delegates mailing list<BR> >>>>>> <A href="mailto:Chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org">Chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org</A><BR> >>>>>> </TT><TT><A href="http://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/chapter-delegates">http://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/chapter-delegates</A></TT><TT><BR> >>>>><BR> >>>>> --<BR> >>>>><BR> >>>>><BR> >>>>> _______________________________________________<BR> >>>>> Chapter-delegates mailing list<BR> >>>>> <A href="mailto:Chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org">Chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org</A><BR> >>>>> </TT><TT><A href="http://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/chapter-delegates">http://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/chapter-delegates</A></TT><TT><BR> >>>>><BR> >>><BR> >>><BR> >>>> _______________________________________________<BR> >>>> Chapter-delegates mailing list<BR> >>>> <A href="mailto:Chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org">Chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org</A><BR> >>>> </TT><TT><A href="http://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/chapter-delegates">http://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/chapter-delegates</A></TT><TT><BR> >>><BR> >>> --<BR> >>><BR> >>><BR> >>> _______________________________________________<BR> >>> Chapter-delegates mailing list<BR> >>> <A href="mailto:Chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org">Chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org</A><BR> >>> </TT><TT><A href="http://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/chapter-delegates">http://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/chapter-delegates</A></TT><TT><BR> >><BR> >><BR> >> _______________________________________________<BR> >> Chapter-delegates mailing list<BR> >> <A href="mailto:Chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org">Chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org</A><BR> >> </TT><TT><A href="http://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/chapter-delegates">http://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/chapter-delegates</A></TT><TT><BR> >><BR> >><BR> ><BR> ><BR> > _______________________________________________<BR> > Chapter-delegates mailing list<BR> > <A href="mailto:Chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org">Chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org</A><BR> > </TT><TT><A href="http://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/chapter-delegates">http://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/chapter-delegates</A></TT><TT><BR> ><BR> </TT><BR> </P></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>