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<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=387582323-10112005>As we normally do, </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=387582323-10112005></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=387582323-10112005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>The transcriptions of the meeting will be published in the
MMM Forum. <A
href="http://www.isoc.be/chde/forum">http://www.isoc.be/chde/forum</A></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=387582323-10112005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=387582323-10112005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Meanwhile here you've the first Draft.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=387582323-10112005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>It's really interesting to follow all the links provided by
the lecturer.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=387582323-10112005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=387582323-10112005> <FONT
face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>andreu</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=387582323-10112005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=387582323-10112005><FONT face=Arial
size=2>--------------------------------------</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><SPAN class=387582323-10112005></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2>2005-11-10 Monographic Monthly Meeting # 11 (November)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Invited Guest: Matthew Shears (ISOC Director
of Public Policy, since september
2005.<BR>
>From Denmark.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Attendees: <BR>David McAuley ISOC-HQ
(today from Vancouver)<BR>Irwan Effendi ISOC Indonesia (from Jakarta)<BR>Edmon
Chung (ISOC-Hong Kong)<BR>Jim Galvin ISOC-HQ (today from
Vancouver)<BR>Hans-Peter Dittler-ISOC-DE<BR>Rosa Delgado ISOC Board (from Geneva
today)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Moderating:<BR>Andreu Veŕ <SPAN
class=387582323-10112005> </SPAN>(<SPAN class=387582323-10112005>Barcelona,
</SPAN>today from Stanford, CA)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Answered telling they couldn't make it:<BR>Lynn
StAymour<BR>Franck Martin (excused for a meeting) Suva (Fiji Islands)<BR>Rajnesh
D. Singh (Fiji)<BR>Rudi Vansnick (Belgium)<BR>Alex Corenthin
(Senegal)<BR>--------------------------</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>
<DIV><BR>At 12h noon California time we start the
meeting.<BR>-----------------------------------------------------------------------</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Franck Martin-PIC-ISOC: Hi all<BR>Andreu: Hello Welcome
everybody<BR>SHEARS: hello everyone<BR>Irwan Effendi-INDONESIA: hihi
too<BR>Franck Martin-PIC-ISOC: My apologies, I have an impromptu meeting this
morning...<BR>Hans-Peter Dittler-ISOC-DE: Hello from Hans Peter Dittler - this
week at the IETF in Vancouver<BR>Franck Martin-PIC-ISOC: With the rest of
PICISOC board<BR>ROSA: hello all<BR>Franck Martin-PIC-ISOC: I may meet some of
you in ICANN Vancouver, and we are preparing ICANN Wellington (closest from
home, ever)<BR>Franck Martin-PIC-ISOC: c u all<BR>David McAuley-ISOC-HQ: Hello
everyone, Jim Galvin and I will be sharing a PC<BR>SHEARS: franck apisake did a
great job covering the recent geneva meetings <BR>Franck Martin-PIC-ISOC has
left the conference.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>David McAuley-ISOC-HQ: Hello, everyone, from Jim Galvin!<BR>Edmon Chung has
joined the conference.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Andreu: Well<BR>Andreu: We're joining from all around the world <BR>Andreu:
again,<BR>Andreu: this time to listen to a <BR>SHEARS: Jim, David
hello<BR>Andreu: person who will lecture<BR>Andreu: us today about the
WSIS<BR>ROSA: Andreu- Tks for organizing this<BR>David McAuley-ISOC-HQ: Hello
Matthew and thanks<BR>Andreu: He is Matthew Shears<BR>Andreu: I'd
suggest<BR>Andreu: that we introduce ourselves<BR>Andreu: very briefly saying
name, where we're<BR>Andreu: and local time <BR>Andreu:
------------------<BR>Andreu: Andreu Veŕ, Stanford (CA), its 12
noon<BR>Edmon Chung: Edmon joining from IETF Vancouver 12noon PT<BR>SHEARS:
matthew shears - denmark - its 2100<BR>ROSA: Rosa Delgado, Geneva,
21:00<BR>David McAuley-ISOC-HQ: Thanks Andeu, Jim Galvin and David McAuley
sharing PC - in Vancouver and Jim is VP of chapters and I am Membership
Director<BR>Hans-Peter Dittler-ISOC-DE: Hello I am Hans Peter Dittler from ISOC
Germany - now from Vancouver my time is 12 noon taday<BR>Andreu: Irwan... did
you fall sleep ?<BR>Andreu: <BR>Andreu: (he joins us from Jakarta
Indonesia)<BR>Andreu: ------------<BR>Andreu: OK I think we can start
<BR>Andreu: probably more people will join <BR>Andreu: in a few
minutes.<BR>Andreu: -------------But let's be prompt<BR>Andreu: Matthew you've
the "word" <BR>SHEARS: okay - thanks everyone - great to be on this
chat<BR>Irwan Effendi-INDONESIA: this is only 3:00 AM, any reason I should be
sleeping ?<BR>Andreu: <BR>SHEARS: thought i would add some text about the wsis
and other aspects and then talk through some of it so bear with me for a
moent<BR>SHEARS: moment<BR>Andreu: ok<BR>SHEARS: About the WSIS:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The World Summit on the Information Society is being held in two phases:
the first was in Geneva (10-12 December 2003); the second will take place in
Tunis (16-18 November 2005). The WSIS brings together Heads of State and
Government, Executive Heads of the United Nations agencies, non-governmental
organizations, civil society entities, industry leaders and media
representatives with the aim of producing a statement of political will and plan
of action to shape the future of the global information society. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The results of the WSIS are intended to promote the access of all countries
to information, knowledge and communication technologies for
development. The WSIS is also seen as a unique opportunity for key
stakeholders to develop a common vision and understanding<BR>David
McAuley-ISOC-HQ: Wow, Matthew, you sure can type.<BR>SHEARS: good eh?<BR>Andreu:
he's a machine...<BR>SHEARS: and to address the whole range of relevant issues
related to the Information Society. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The Summit was endorsed by the UN General Assembly and takes place under
the high patronage of Kofi Annan, UN Secretary-General, with the International
Telecommunication Union taking the lead role in its preparation.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><A
href="http://www.itu.int/wsis/basic/about.html">http://www.itu.int/wsis/basic/about.html</A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>SHEARS: and the rest - <BR>SHEARS: many of you may already know this - but
the importance of the wsis was to focus on leveraging ICTs for development and
other wrothy aims<BR>Irwan Effendi-INDONESIA: let's peel the onion
skin<BR>SHEARS: there's the link<BR>SHEARS: peel away when you want<BR>SHEARS:
so for ISOC we had a couple of focus areas:<BR>Andreu: Irwan let the lecturer
say<BR>Andreu: and then we start the Q & A period<BR>SHEARS: Key issue
areas: </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>1. Internet Governance:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The issue of greatest concern to ISOC and to much of ISOC's membership is
that of Internet Governance. WSIS considers Internet Governance in its
broadest sense, covering not just issues related to the Domain Name System for
example, but also issues related to spam, cyber-security, interconnection costs
for developing countries, etc. It is fair to say that this issue has
eclipsed all others in the WSIS process when it was supposed to be but a
component. The issue has become an opportunity for many countries to voice
their concerns related to the Internet and its administration or management by
ICANN and others and the USDoC. Many countries are seeking fundamental
structural changes to the governance mechanisms of today (see below for
IS<BR>SHEARS: ISOC positioning).</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The latest documents and state of play on Internet Governance can be found
here:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><A
href="http://www.itu.int/wsis/preparatory2/pc3/index.html">http://www.itu.int/wsis/preparatory2/pc3/index.html</A>
</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>SHEARS: this is the key issue although there are others of importance to
such as:<BR>SHEARS: 2. Financial Mechanisms:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The purpose of this activity was to assess the various financing mechanisms
for ICT for development and to recommend improvements. The latest text can
be found here:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><A
href="http://www.itu.int/wsis/docs2/pc3/off7rev1.pdf">http://www.itu.int/wsis/docs2/pc3/off7rev1.pdf</A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>3. Stocktaking:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>An additional activity undertaken by the WSIS was the compilation of
initiatives, actions and programs undertaken by stakeholders in support of the
WSIS principles, focusing on ICT for development:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><A
href="http://www.itu.int/wsis/stocktaking/index.html">http://www.itu.int/wsis/stocktaking/index.html</A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>SHEARS: but the headline grabbing issue is governance.<BR>SHEARS: so what
has ISOC been doing here:<BR>SHEARS: ISOC's role:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>ISOC has represented the Internet Community through out the WSIS process
and has been a central player in all discussions. Most recently, ISOC
participated in Geneva in September in the 3rd preparatory session (called
PrepCom3) for the final meeting of the World Summit on the Information Society
(WSIS) in Tunis. ISOC was represented by Lynn St.Amour and Matthew Shears,
the new Director of Public Policy. In addition, ISOC implemented a new
program for PrepCom3: the ISOC Ambassador program, in which 12 individuals from
around the globe were invited to Geneva to participate as ISOC
representatives. This program added significant insight and presence for
ISOC during the proceedings. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>SHEARS: the ambassador program has been an excellent activity to bring in
truly global reach to our policy programs<BR>SHEARS: many in geneva at the
latest round of preparatory discussions for tunis were very impressed with ISOC
ambassadors and commended ISOC on this activity - hopefully we will get to do
more of this<BR>SHEARS: so specficically in geneva we did the
following:<BR>SHEARS: ISOC made a number of significant contributions to the
Internet Governance debate through submitting detailed comments on specific
proposals and through statements during the plenaries. ISOC’s
contributions were referenced by a number of the delegations, including those
from Australia, New Zealand, the United States, Canada and others. ISOC’s
contributions can be found here:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><A
href="http://www.isoc.org/isoc/conferences/wsis/">http://www.isoc.org/isoc/conferences/wsis/</A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Andreu: By the way (I didn't mentioned in my introduction, but Matthew is
our (ISOC) Director of Public Policy. <BR>SHEARS: hey, thanks!<BR>Andreu:
<BR>SHEARS: sorry should have done that myself <BR>SHEARS: let me interrupt my
furious typing and say that I have been on board 2 half months and very happy to
be part of the ISOC family<BR>SHEARS: we asked our ambassadors to blog their
participatioin in geneva and they will be doing the same in tunis - in their
mother tongue and english<BR>SHEARS: In addition, the ISOC Ambassadors were
invited to Blog their experiences and impressions during the Geneva
meetings. These provide for interesting reading and can be found
here:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><A
href="http://geneva.isoc.org/blogs/wsis/">http://geneva.isoc.org/blogs/wsis/</A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><BR>SHEARS: hope you don't mind all these links<BR>SHEARS: let me talk
about one last thing before the substance of the policy matters<BR>David
McAuley-ISOC-HQ: The links are fine especially for those who will access
transcript<BR>SHEARS: ISOC and other members of the Internet Community (NRO,
CENTR, AfrISPA, LINX, ICANN and the IETF) will also be manning “The Internet
Pavilion” in the WSIS Exhibition Hall during the Summit. Details on the
Pavilion can be found here:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><A
href="http://www.isoc.org/isoc/conferences/wsis/pavilion.shtml">http://www.isoc.org/isoc/conferences/wsis/pavilion.shtml</A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>SHEARS: so in Tunis we are both in the policy discussions and the
exhibition - check out the link above for details as to our pavilion - and if
you are going to be there - join us!<BR>SHEARS: Let me spend a minute on the
policy issues facing us in Tunis<BR>SHEARS: You've probably seen from the press
that there is a lot of political grandstanding regarding the "control" of the
Internet<BR>SHEARS: a lot of countries are concerned that control of the
Internet is not sufficiently international or accountable (to
governments)<BR>SHEARS: ISOC has a particular conern about the proposals to put
in place new "oversight" mechanisms that will effectively place another layer of
hierarchy on the govenance of the Internet<BR>SHEARS: mechanisms run by
governments<BR>SHEARS: of course we argue that this is ununecessary and counter
to the spirit of the Internet<BR>SHEARS: unecessary because the mechanisms are
in place - Regional INternet Registries, ICANN, IETF, ccTLDs registries,
etc.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>SHEARS: but many governments look at the Internet in the "old world" way -
expecting that it should be run by governments if it deals with "critical
resources" and the Internet has been so successful that they see addresses,
ccTLDs, etc., as critical resources <BR>SHEARS: to their economic development,
national security, etc.<BR>Andreu: (rosa had some trouble and I'm trying to
invite her again)<BR>SHEARS: So to quickly sum up, we have two worlds, some of
which see the need for more government involvement, and others who see the
system as working just fine thank you<BR>ROSA has joined the conference.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>SHEARS: may be I should leave it there?<BR>SHEARS: rosa can certainly give
us a perrspective as she has been liging through this as well<BR>SHEARS: living
<BR>David McAuley-ISOC-HQ: Matthew, in prepcom I read about civil society being
asked to leave the room - what is the meeting in Tunis to be like? is there a
way for participation or is it scripted<BR>ROSA: i was disconnected sorry I lost
all the text <BR>Andreu: I'm forwarding it to you Rosa (in 30 secs)<BR>SHEARS:
there is a way but it is scripted - the pre-meeting just before Tunis that will
deal with governance issues and other things will be based on the following 45
minutes for non-government participants for every 6 hours of government
discussion<BR>SHEARS: we ISOC can at best expect 3 - 5 minutes every 6 hours
<BR>SHEARS: rosa - i said that you could also give your perspective as you have
lived tghrough this<BR>ROSA: one thing is interesting in Geneva in order to get
you plane ticket you must show invittaion to WSIS so everything is controlled -
I think<BR>SHEARS: yes there have been concerns about how open this will
be<BR>David McAuley-ISOC-HQ: I have seen a lot of discussion regarding th forum
function - I take it that those intereted in Internet Governance are looking to
create a forum coming out of WSIS<BR>Irwan Effendi-INDONESIA: uh, moderator, are
we in Q & A yet?<BR>Andreu: Yes <BR>Andreu: After the first 30 minutes of
lecture<BR>Andreu: we start the Q & A<BR>ROSA: Some NGos have been refused
to enter into Tunisia for WSIS- I wonder how much transparency will be in the
process next week <BR>Andreu: naturally.<BR>Irwan
Effendi-INDONESIA: ok, then my question is: why ISOC seems to have taken the
counter moves very lightly ?<BR>SHEARS: thanks - can you clarify what you mean
by counter moves?<BR>Irwan Effendi-INDONESIA: From May to October, I was busy
fighting Indonesian government<BR>ROSA: Matheu - what do you think it will
happens if the Tunis meeting will not get consensus? more prepcoms in
2006?<BR>Irwan Effendi-INDONESIA: They support ITU because they see a lot of
money coming in if they control internet<BR>SHEARS: yes, on the motivations of
the ITU - there are those <BR>Irwan Effendi-INDONESIA: One of the most obvious
action: taking over management of ccTLD .ID<BR>SHEARS: who belive that the ITU
needs to make a play for the Internet<BR>Irwan Effendi-INDONESIA: I call that
sort of action "counter moves"<BR>SHEARS: and the ITU's role is far from clear
although many believe that they would like to manage any follow-up from
Tunis<BR>Irwan Effendi-INDONESIA: frankly, ISOC response about these "distant
actions" are slow and unfocused<BR>Irwan Effendi-INDONESIA: we lost the battle
here due to that.<BR>SHEARS: not sure I would characterise it as such - but
certainly the more we can head off actions that threaten the principles we
endorse the better<BR>SHEARS: Rosa<BR>SHEARS: to come back to your
question<BR>ROSA: pls<BR>SHEARS: there will be some consensus in Tunis - ther
has to be for ther to be a "success"<BR>SHEARS: the WSIS and ITU and UN need to
point to something - my guess , and it is just a guess, is that it will be some
sort of Forum type activity after Tunis<BR>SHEARS: I cannot see oversight
mechanisms being agreed upon given diveristy of views<BR>ROSA: Forum was suppose
to be a civil society activity but my guess is that soem Govs want to have a
hand on this too <BR>SHEARS: it will have to be multi-stakeholder as that is the
operational principle we have all agreed to<BR>Irwan Effendi-INDONESIA: Shears,
my source, who attended prepcom 3, inform me that 63 percent of "accountable
presence" agree to form a new inter-governmental council<BR>SHEARS:
hmmmmm<BR>Irwan Effendi-INDONESIA: how will 63 percent failed if there's no
action to change that right now?<BR>SHEARS: you know the problem with these
types of events is that one can read into them just about anything<BR>SHEARS: so
my read<BR>SHEARS: is<BR>SHEARS: that only a few governments pushed hard for
some new council - but they were very vocal<BR>SHEARS: if you talk to many
governments they don't really wnat new structures<BR>ROSA: Brazil, India, China,
South Africa.. etc. are not just any Gov? <BR>Irwan Effendi-INDONESIA:
well, I can tell you for sure that Indonesian government support the call for
new structure<BR>SHEARS: yes, there are different groupings that have
arisen<BR>ROSA: these are the countries that are pushing inter-governnamental
form of governnace <BR>SHEARS: there are those that Rosa has just
outlined<BR>SHEARS: and then ther are others<BR>SHEARS: Canada, NZ, Australia,
maybe Singapore, maybe US that do not hold same views<BR>Irwan
Effendi-INDONESIA: Singapore? are you sure ?<BR>ROSA: Mathew - whta is the final
European positipn?<BR>SHEARS: and there are others who have different views - if
you look at the proposals on WSIS site you will see that ther are also ones that
come together aroun d the Argentine. African position<BR>Irwan
Effendi-INDONESIA: Singapore's state company SingTel assist our government in
taking over ccTLD management<BR>SHEARS: The EU position is unclear - industry
has spent time with the Commission and other member states<BR>ROSA: under the
recommendation of the ITU<BR>SHEARS: to try and get clarity as to
position<BR>SHEARS: the problem with these positions is that they are generic
enough and vague enough that other delegations can read into them<BR>SHEARS: so
you had the situation of the announcement of the EU proposal being welcomed with
open arms by Iran, Brazil and others<BR>SHEARS: not sure that the EU had
anticipated that<BR>Irwan Effendi-INDONESIA: push harder and you'll get definite
answer<BR>Irwan Effendi-INDONESIA: I push hard enough, the head of Indonesian
delegation sent an email to me, telling me to shut up<BR>ROSA: true, but they
cannot change their positio anymore - I think<BR>SHEARS: in these negotiations
you can't really tell delegates to be quiet <BR>SHEARS: rosa - i agree that
whatever happens the EU only has as much margin for manoeuvre as it can find in
its text<BR>SHEARS: as do all parties that submitted text - there in lies the
dilemma if you submit text<BR>Irwan Effendi-INDONESIA: the real question here:
how about people? so far they are counting only governments, companies,
organizations, no real effort for a real opinion survey<BR>SHEARS: very good
opiint<BR>SHEARS: point<BR>SHEARS: the end-user seems to have been
forgotten<BR>SHEARS: 957 million Internet user as of September 2005<BR>Irwan
Effendi-INDONESIA: yes<BR>Andreu: The problem is that they don't have a unique
voice.<BR>Andreu: ISOC represents part of this society...<BR>SHEARS: question
for governments: would what is decided in Tunis be endorsed by those Billion
users? <BR>SHEARS: my guess is probably not<BR>Andreu: <BR>Irwan
Effendi-INDONESIA: I have here with me list of 1264 names of Indonesian internet
user who has agreed to appoint me to voice their rights, but they don't want to
join ISOC<BR>Irwan Effendi-INDONESIA: and I have not even advertise in
newspaper<BR>SHEARS: the issue is getting governmetns to understand that they
have a duty to those end-users<BR>ROSA: if UN is involved it legitimates the
process despite users <BR>SHEARS: therein lies a problem<BR>Irwan
Effendi-INDONESIA: agree, while you are at it, please pass our voice: we don't
care how it work, just make sure it works, and please cut the bandwidth
cost.<BR>SHEARS: the UN cannot relfect those users because its systen of
representation is based upon the "old" nationa state system<BR>SHEARS: this is
one of the fundamental dilemmas of the Internet and government
involvement<BR>Irwan Effendi-INDONESIA: If you need signatures, I can collect
about 10 thousand in 2 days time <BR>SHEARS: I like that kind of
thinking<BR>SHEARS: but you can also cut bandwidth costs through more
bandwidth<BR>SHEARS: which gets to a point about these negotiations<BR>ROSA:
Hero-tsai, a paragraph regarding reduced bw cost was added by Bangladesh in the
final prepcom3 doc... <BR>SHEARS: they sometimes miss the point of what the user
needs to get online and to benefit from the Internet<BR>Irwan Effendi-INDONESIA:
uh, in Indonesia, we are talking about cost to dial<BR>SHEARS: point
taken<BR>Irwan Effendi-INDONESIA: 97 percent dial up users with pay per minute
rates<BR>SHEARS: lot of folks suggest new technologies for situations like that
- wimax, etc. any thoughts on that <BR>Irwan Effendi-INDONESIA: like,
attending this meeting cost me the equivalent of one lunch <BR>SHEARS: would be
interested iin hearing view of Germany maybe on WSIS?<BR>Hans-Peter
Dittler-ISOC-DE: why from Germany???<BR>SHEARS: or Asia countries - anyone have
any views<BR>SHEARS: Because they are important player in EU <BR>Irwan
Effendi-INDONESIA: not from us, our problem is not technology, but
policy<BR>ROSA: regulators who are members of ITU <BR>Hans-Peter
Dittler-ISOC-DE: My guess is very similar to yours - there will be not too much
concrete things coming out of next week - most things will be moved to follow up
meetings <BR>SHEARS: If governance issues continue beyond Tunis - what should
they be focussed on?<BR>SHEARS: Looking for input<BR>Irwan Effendi-INDONESIA:
they or us?<BR>ROSA: oversight, forum...<BR>SHEARS: all fo us<BR>Irwan
Effendi-INDONESIA: survey<BR>SHEARS: all of us<BR>Irwan Effendi-INDONESIA: real
life survey<BR>SHEARS: ISOC ran some surveys on WGIG report - maybe we can do
more here to canvas importance of issues<BR>SHEARS: David?<BR>Irwan
Effendi-INDONESIA: yes, the last one was very hard to understand<BR>Irwan
Effendi-INDONESIA: I say use simple words<BR>SHEARS: It is a good idea - perhaps
we can run a survey after Tunis to find out impressions and find out critical
issues for follow-up<BR>David McAuley-ISOC-HQ has left the conference.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>David McAuley-ISOC-HQ has joined the conference.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Irwan Effendi-INDONESIA: such as this: Do you know about internet ? Do you
wish to use internet ? Do you think your government should control how you
access the internet ?<BR>ROSA: why not during tunis<BR>David McAuley-ISOC-HQ: We
can do that Matthew - will wait until post Tunis and then arrange<BR>Irwan
Effendi-INDONESIA: yes, during is better<BR>SHEARS: logistics of during are more
challenging - and we need to be able to give guidance as to what stakeholders
should be focussed on going forward<BR>Irwan Effendi-INDONESIA: and, requesting
permission to publish the survey on local paper<BR>SHEARS: as rosa says the
Forum and oversight issues will consume all our time<BR>David McAuley-ISOC-HQ: I
agree - not sure we can do it during Tunis<BR>Irwan Effendi-INDONESIA: uh, why
not handle this the "military-style" ? let the babbling goes on, seize the key
positions<BR>Hans-Peter Dittler-ISOC-DE: anything which keeps the current
structure is OK for me - even the US oversight is better than something the ITU
could come up with (personal view)<BR>Edmon Chung has left the conference.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Edmon Chung has joined the conference.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Irwan Effendi-INDONESIA: suppose department of commerce in US can be made
to let go of ICANN early next yeart<BR>SHEARS: there are many, many who agree
with the view that the US role is better than some international
entity<BR>SHEARS: we shall have to see what happens next week thought I do not
beleive that there will be any great change on that front<BR>ROSA: This will not
be accepted by most Govs<BR>Irwan Effendi-INDONESIA: But the primary reason for
forming a new intergovernmental body is supposedly because ICANN is under U.S.
control right ?<BR>David McAuley-ISOC-HQ: It will be a busy and important week
and so best wishes for it Matthew<BR>Irwan Effendi-INDONESIA: if you can somehow
managed to get ICANN a new "independent" status, they lose their
pretext<BR>SHEARS: I think that governments who wnat to change status of player
should do so through participating more fiully in those processes and
players<BR>SHEARS: not impose change from outside<BR>SHEARS: thanks david - ther
will be some long nights<BR>Irwan Effendi-INDONESIA: If they really want to
"participate", they will do it from the inside<BR>David McAuley-ISOC-HQ: I am
sure there will be - to those here and who read transcript please go by ISOC
pavilion<BR>Hans-Peter Dittler-ISOC-DE: There is no way to be really independent
for ICANN - this would need an inter-governemental agreement like the one which
is the base of the ITU - very complicated process to setup something like
this<BR>Irwan Effendi-INDONESIA: however, this is all just about money<BR>Irwan
Effendi-INDONESIA: no, US can simply provide ICANN a special status<BR>Irwan
Effendi-INDONESIA: much like the way Italy provide for Vatican<BR>Irwan
Effendi-INDONESIA: got the idea ?<BR>Irwan Effendi-INDONESIA: so ICANN will be
treated as Embassy<BR>Andreu: (wait, the Vatican State is not italy
)<BR>ROSA: or like Red Cross or other<BR>Irwan Effendi-INDONESIA: yes, similar
to that<BR>Andreu: OK <BR>Andreu: Any other questions ?<BR>Irwan
Effendi-INDONESIA: vatican is not in Italian land ?<BR>SHEARS: Unlilely that
that will occur anytime during Tunis however!<BR>Andreu: Edmon, you have been
very quiet...<BR>Irwan Effendi-INDONESIA: non during Tunis<BR>Irwan
Effendi-INDONESIA: how about within the next six months?<BR>SHEARS: wouldn't
want to hazard a guess on that<BR>Irwan Effendi-INDONESIA: whatever they decide
on Tunis, it will take at least one year to implement<BR>David McAuley-ISOC-HQ:
Edmon just left for a meeting <BR>SHEARS: yes, he dropped<BR>Irwan
Effendi-INDONESIA: you can simply shake all their efforts down the drain by
removing the primary reason<BR>Edmon Chung: back now <BR>SHEARS: Remember that
this isn't just about the Internet - it is not differernt than other
inter-governmental events - lots of posturing for geo-political aims<BR>David
McAuley-ISOC-HQ: Andreu I may have to leave in a moment<BR>Irwan
Effendi-INDONESIA: I agree, as I said, this is about money and power<BR>SHEARS:
Andreu - thanks for this opportunity<BR>SHEARS: to chat about WSIS<BR>SHEARS: it
has been all comsuming<BR>SHEARS: since I came on board<BR>Andreu:
OK<BR>Hans-Peter Dittler-ISOC-DE: I have to go to a meeting now - see you next
time<BR>Rosa Delgado-ISOC: tks to Andreu for organizing this chat<BR>Andreu: Any
other questions ?<BR>Andreu: Or we'll wrap this up.<BR>SHEARS: Rosa - see you in
Tunis right?<BR>David McAuley-ISOC-HQ: Thanks Andreu and Matthew<BR>Irwan
Effendi-INDONESIA: bring up the ribbons <BR>Andreu: I will finally not
go<BR>Andreu: I was invited to lecture representing Stanford<BR>SHEARS: very
nice<BR>Andreu: but they cut the sponsorship at the last minute<BR>Andreu: when
I had already the speech prepared <BR>SHEARS: shame<BR>Irwan Effendi-INDONESIA:
maybe they found out that you belong to ISOC <BR>Andreu: <BR>ROSA: Yes but only
for 3 days<BR>SHEARS: OK look forward to seeing you there<BR>ROSA: Matthew -
good luck in Tunis <BR>Andreu: Enjoy one of the most beatiful
countries<BR>Andreu: in the north of Africa<BR>David McAuley-ISOC-HQ: The
vancouver group is about to leave<BR>SHEARS: Thanks - going to have to go -
happy to continue to chat <A
href="mailto:shears@isoc.org">shears@isoc.org</A><BR>Andreu: and BTW at two
hours from Barcelona.<BR>Andreu: Thanks to everybody to attend from<BR>David
McAuley-ISOC-HQ: Good luck there Matthew<BR>Andreu: so many
"continents"<BR>Andreu: europa, north america<BR>Andreu: asia...<BR>Matthew
Shears-Public-Policy-ISOC: Many thanks Andreu - <BR>Andreu: Same from
here.<BR>Irwan Effendi-INDONESIA: one of these days, we need to get the
antartics<BR>Andreu: Good look.<BR>SHEARS: Bye all.<BR>Andreu: As you see we can
organice something like<BR>Hans-Peter Dittler-ISOC-DE: bye<BR>Andreu: this with
more people at anytime<BR>Edmon Chung: bye good to meet you all virtually
<BR>David McAuley-ISOC-HQ: goodbye<BR>Andreu: We have tested it
already.<BR>Andreu: Goodbye.<BR>ROSA: hasta la vista</FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=es dir=ltr align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>De:</B> Andreu Vea' [mailto:andreu@veabaro.info]
<BR><B>Enviado el:</B> martes, 08 de noviembre de 2005 21:09<BR><B>Para:</B>
'jd@isoc-es.org'<BR><B>Asunto:</B> Monographic Monthly Meeting MMM # 11 NOVEMBER
(WSIS with Matthew Shears)<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=118473803-09112005><FONT face=Arial><FONT
color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN class=086380605-09112005>Visto que la lista (al
copiar a demasiados remitentes) rehusaba este mensaje, os lo vuelvo a
enviar.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=118473803-09112005><FONT face=Arial><FONT
color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN class=086380605-09112005>Disculpad si os llega
dos veces. Os animo encarecidamente a que participeis en esta sesión desde
vuestras casas. Es una buena ocasión de hablar con los responsables q nos
representaran en el WSIS de Tunez ante las Naciones
Unidas.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=118473803-09112005><FONT face=Arial><FONT
color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=086380605-09112005></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=118473803-09112005><FONT face=Arial><FONT
color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=086380605-09112005>--------------------------</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=118473803-09112005><FONT face=Arial><FONT
color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=086380605-09112005></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=118473803-09112005><FONT face=Arial><FONT
color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN class=086380605-09112005> </SPAN>After a
brief summer parenthesis we re-start our regular monthly
meetings.</FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=es dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">MEETING: # <SPAN
class=176193304-07062005><FONT size=2> </FONT><FONT size=4><SPAN
class=118473803-09112005><FONT size=2><FONT
size=4><STRONG>11</STRONG></FONT> </FONT></SPAN> </FONT><FONT
size=2><SPAN class=999303820-07062005> <FONT size=4>
</FONT></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><SPAN
class=176193304-07062005><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=999303820-07062005></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><SPAN
class=999303820-07062005><FONT size=2><SPAN class=118473803-09112005>Matthew
Shears will lecture us about the WSIS prepcom and will invite some of the
ISOC ambassadors to the UN meeting in Tunis. He'll join from
Denmark.</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><SPAN
class=999303820-07062005></SPAN><BR><FONT
size=4>------------------------------------8<---------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
</FONT></SPAN><FONT color=purple size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: purple; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Date:</SPAN></FONT><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT size=4> T<SPAN
class=999303820-07062005>hur</SPAN>sday, <SPAN
class=176193304-07062005> <SPAN class=118473803-09112005> November
</SPAN></SPAN> the <SPAN
class=118473803-09112005> 10</SPAN>th<SPAN
class=176193304-07062005> . </SPAN><BR>
Time: <SPAN class=999303820-07062005> <SPAN
class=118473803-09112005><FONT size=2> <FONT
size=4>2</FONT></FONT></SPAN>0:00 </SPAN>UTC<SPAN
class=176193304-07062005> </SPAN><SPAN class=176193304-07062005>Look for
your city at the newly prepared meeting planner below<SPAN
class=999303820-07062005> . </SPAN></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <SPAN
class=999303820-07062005><FONT size=2> </FONT></SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><SPAN
class=999303820-07062005> </SPAN> </SPAN><FONT
color=purple><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: purple; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Topic:</SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT
size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <SPAN
class=999303820-07062005> </SPAN>"<SPAN
class=176193304-07062005>Last Updates on ISOC participation on <SPAN
class=hl>WSIS</SPAN></SPAN>"<BR> </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
Guest: <SPAN class=118473803-09112005><FONT
size=2> </FONT></SPAN>**<SPAN
class=176193304-07062005> <SPAN class=118473803-09112005>Matthew
Shears </SPAN></SPAN>** <SPAN
class=999303820-07062005> </SPAN></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><SPAN
class=118473803-09112005>Director of Public Policy of
ISOC </SPAN></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><SPAN
class=176193304-07062005> <SPAN class=118473803-09112005><FONT
size=2> </FONT></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><SPAN
class=176193304-07062005><SPAN class=118473803-09112005><FONT
size=2> </FONT> </SPAN> </SPAN></SPAN><FONT
color=purple><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: purple; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Status:<SPAN
class=999303820-07062005><FONT
color=#0000ff> </FONT></SPAN></SPAN></FONT></FONT><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT size=4>
Confirmed<BR>----------8<-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<SPAN
class=176193304-07062005> </SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><SPAN
class=176193304-07062005></SPAN><SPAN class=118473803-09112005><FONT
size=2></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><SPAN
class=118473803-09112005>Info about our guest this month:
</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><SPAN
class=118473803-09112005><STRONG>
Matthew Shears</STRONG> has jumped right in ISOC and has been
instrumental in the WSIS PrepCom 3. </SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><SPAN
class=118473803-09112005> He is in the
thick of organizing our presence at WSIS meeting in Tunis this
month.</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><SPAN
class=118473803-09112005><FONT size=2></FONT></SPAN><FONT size=2></FONT><FONT
size=2></FONT><BR><SPAN class=176193304-07062005><FONT size=2>Just have your
I<SPAN class=118473803-09112005>nstant Messenger</SPAN> on and you'll be invited
5 minutes before.</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><SPAN
class=176193304-07062005><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=118473803-09112005></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><SPAN
class=176193304-07062005><FONT size=2><STRONG>New-Timers:</STRONG> Send me an
email to subscribe you to the meeting </FONT><A
href="mailto:andreu@veabaro.info"><FONT
size=2>andreu@veabaro.info</FONT></A><FONT size=2> up to 10 minutes before
the event start<SPAN class=999303820-07062005> time </SPAN>.<SPAN
class=999303820-07062005> <SPAN
class=118473803-09112005> </SPAN></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><SPAN
class=176193304-07062005><FONT size=2><SPAN class=999303820-07062005><SPAN
class=118473803-09112005>You can download a free IM messenger here <A
href="http://messenger.yahoo.com">http://messenger.yahoo.com</A> which supports
video-cams. You can also use GAIM (only text) or others to follow the
conversations.</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><SPAN
class=176193304-07062005><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=999303820-07062005></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=center><FONT size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><SPAN
class=176193304-07062005><FONT size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: ES; mso-fareast-language: ES; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: ES; mso-fareast-language: ES; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA"></SPAN></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=center><FONT size=2><IMG
src="cid:118473803@09112005-28F3"></FONT></DIV><FONT size=2></FONT>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left></SPAN></FONT><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT
color=#800080><FONT size=4><SPAN class=118473803-09112005><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT
color=#800080><FONT size=4>Don't miss this unique oportunity to know more about
our ISOC <SPAN class=176193304-07062005>c</SPAN>olleagues around the
world <SPAN class=118473803-09112005><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2> </FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT
color=#800080><FONT size=4>and collect first hand information from our monthly
"invited guests".</FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=black
size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></BODY></HTML>